Author Topic: Comparison between a low bar 130 kg squat and a high bar 130 kg squat  (Read 4199 times)

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Raptor

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High bar:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0932wdPNjA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0932wdPNjA</a>

Low bar:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59Lm64bz1bc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59Lm64bz1bc</a>

Any comments/ideas/observations?

LBSS

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pretty similar, TBH, although it's a bit hard to tell given the differing angles. both look solid, the HB maybe a little more so. you could go deeper on HB than you do without sacrificing form.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
wednesday: fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

Raptor

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The pressure that I feel on the knees using the high bar squat is basically in another league vs. low bar.

LBSS

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The pressure that I feel on the knees using the high bar squat is basically in another league vs. low bar.

if you mean that in a bad way, then just stick to low bar. or maybe try paused HB? it's a general exercise either way.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
wednesday: fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

LanceSTS

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  Youre comparing a low bar squat in tennis shoes to a high bar squat in weightlifting shoes.  Nice.
Relax.

LanceSTS

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http://www.adarq.org/progress-journals-experimental-routines/raptor%27s-strength-power-journal/60/

I just came from the park. A very interesting thing happened:

TODAY I JUMPED THE HIGHEST IN MY LIFE, EVER

I just went in the park and then after a friendly 3 on 3, I went on to dunk on the 2.96 rim. Boy did I get up. I was getting up unreal. I mean, I had extreme "nerve" and extreme power. The approach speed was very very high, like in the past, but with great strength like in the present. So it was a combined great speed and good strength. I dunked from probably beyond the dotted line (since I don't have the dotted line drawn on the floor), so I was jumping from very far out and getting very high at the same time. Vert was probably over 36 inches. This was happening after while playing, my left leg would just collapse at the knee WALKING. So I thought I'd suck very hard. But instead, I could just blew my mind.

If I were to get this on tape it would've been great. I need to get my camera with me the next time, hopefully I can duplicate this feat. I just can't believe it... and I don't really have an explanation for it either. Maybe because I haven't ate sugar too much (if any) in the last few days and my energy levels were more stable?

But the amount of power (throwing down tomahawks like a beast) and height (36+ inches) was just mind blowing. Going to sleep now, I'm going to the gym later.

Again, incredible day. :o


This was your low bar squatting not carrying over to athleticism you posted about.  You should add some back pedaling into your plans now, good for the quads.
Relax.

Raptor

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I didn't say anything bad about the low bar squat in this thread, in fact I even said the high bar squat puts a ton more pressure on my knees. And yes, it's a comparison between a low bar running shoe squat and a high bar OL shoe squat... that was obvious.

I was just trying to see what everybody else thinks about the two movements in the way I perform them.

LanceSTS

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I didn't say anything bad about the low bar squat in this thread, in fact I even said the high bar squat puts a ton more pressure on my knees. And yes, it's a comparison between a low bar running shoe squat and a high bar OL shoe squat... that was obvious.

I was just trying to see what everybody else thinks about the two movements in the way I perform them.

The weightlifting shoes are going to STRONGLY influence how the squat looks... thats my point.  If you low bar squatted in wl shoes and high bar in tennis shoes, the low bar would look more solid, and deeper. 

and I know you didnt say it here, you said it in another thread, claiming that I told you it was a good idea yet it didnt "carryover to athleticism".  You posted "I jumped the highest in my life" while low bar squatting though, making your statement into dog shit.
Relax.

Raptor

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Well yeah, maybe I should say I feel like right now my quads are so weak and are SUCH a limiting factor that even if I'd increase my low bar squat, where that increase would be because of increased posterior chain strength, they would still be that bad that I wouldn't be able to use all that posterior chain strength unless from a standing VJ perspective.

I just can't block/stop a running attempt and transform all that horizontal movement into vertical movement... I collapse forward. I have the same issue with penetrating towards the rim - I know I can really get speed but I wouldn't be able to decelerate/control that penetration AT ALL so therefore I NEVER use a high amount of speed => I get shut down by any defender.

And it's the most frustrating thing in the world because you know you should be able to be faster and jump higher but your quads just don't allow you to.

That's the whole reasoning behind going high bar squatting right now. I feel my quads work a whole much more the way I squat now.

LanceSTS

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 Youre getting plenty of quads with the low bar squat the way you were doing them though, only you werent putting the same amount of pressure on the knees.  That was the point of doing them in the first place.  I dont get why youre so positive its your quads that is limiting your jumps though, I remember you doing pistols easy, no way you can do that with weak quads.
Relax.

Raptor

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Well yeah, it could be that I suck in the posterior chain and therefore the quads get overloaded and I think I have weak quads.

It's just that the high bar squat is SO much harder than the low bar squat that ... it's gotta be the quads, right? Yes different levers etc, but...

I can hip thrust 110 kg x 8 reps pretty well (I probably can do 120x8) so it can't be the glutes, right? I can leg curl the whole machine weight, so it can't be the hamstrings right? I can deadlift 400 lbs with bad form (still a pretty strong back, right?) and I can deadlift 330-352 lbs with good form.

But when it comes to squatting, the more the quads play a role, the less weight I can use. I'm not sure if I can high bar squat 140 kg. I assume I can but I never tried. So considering all these things... it's gotta be the quads.

When I do low bar squats I feel like my quads are pretty much isometrically keeping me from collapsing forward, but not doing actual concentric work in the squat itself. That's the feeling I have. In the high bar squat I feel them actually working concentrically.

I don't know, this his how I feel.

PS. I can only do really good pistol squats on my left leg. The right leg has NO chance of getting beyond parallel, I'd fall backward or my knee would pop-out or something.

LBSS

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your feeling about which muscles are involved when and how could be (is probably) wrong. you did well with low-bar squats. low bar squats are more comfortable.

so do low bar squats and stop the mental wanking.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
wednesday: fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

LanceSTS

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  What youre talking about happening in the plant isnt something you can relate to a slow strength exercise like a squat.  Many great squatters look awful on running jumps, its a completely different event.  Something like drops phased into depth jumps would help the issue youre explaining a lot more.  Or simply practicing "bounce" type exercises.  You WANT the glutes to drive your squat though, quads and hams help out. 
Relax.

Raptor

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I wonder how the dynamics of the movement change doing the low bar squats in the OL shoes? Any ideas?

Also, remember - I SUCK at half squatting, it's probably the most overloading and hard exercise I can do... the overload at the knee and quad is tremendous.

So if you combine the suckiness of the half squats, the lack of ability to decelerate and stop and the high bar squat difficulty... you pretty much and up with a bad quad strength thing.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 04:02:20 pm by Raptor »

LanceSTS

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I wonder how the dynamics of the movement change doing the low bar squats in the OL shoes? Any ideas?

Yes, you usually get a little more knee travel, a little more upright torso, without putting too much pressure on the knees.  See the bobsled squats in the last thread on this.  Whatever you do you need to pick something and stick to it though.  Sometimes what youre doing is ALREADY the right thing, you just need to do it better.
Relax.