Adarq.org

some dunks





nasty tricking

I've been pretty eccentric with my training ideas, and am always questioning the specificity of exercises for sport. I'm a little less eccentric now but I just wanted to throw this idea out there. If other people have talked about it just delete this thread.

lol nice segue

A depth jump is supposed to overload the muscles involved in power sports. Most depth jumps however seem to overload the eccentric capacities of the quadriceps group more than is specific to vertical jumps, one or two footed.

it's VERY specific to SVJ/RVJ.. vertical jumping is quad dominant, the act of vertically displacing the body is quad dominant, there's no other way around it. Not only do depth jumps just overload properties of muscle & the movement, depth jumps overload the central nervous system, by having your body reflexively call upon protected/protective CNS resources.

Although this is beneficial in many regards, I'm just raising the question of specificity. In a running vertical jump, the athlete usually takes three to four steps before jumping. This increases the amount of force the glutes and hamstrings absorb before transferring it to the quads, in simple terms.

the qauds absorb most of the force when planting, they are the "breaks".. after absorbing this force, they also produce most of the force, along with the calfs, glutes, and hamstrings, but the quads provide the base for which all vertical displacement relies on (through absorbing force in the plant and then producing force concentrically in combination with other muscle groups).

What happens in a depth jump however? The trajectory of the center of gravity looks like a bouncing ball dropped off a cliff. But in a running vertical jump, the trajectory of the center of mass is more like a pinball that meets a spring and goes flying, in other words, it stays quite level for the first three or four steps, then right before the jump, unloads like a spring. Completely different.

the overload of a DJ simply strengthens the athlete to enable them to transition faster from eccentric to concentric, as well as produce more force during the initial plant (drop) and transition.. those adaptations transfer well to RVJ, they don't need to be completely specific. The thing with DJ's, is that you can load them up with forces exceeding that which you can create voluntarily, ie by raising box height, ie 30" through 42" box heights. 30" for "reactive strength peak", 42" for maximal strength peak.

With your idea (which I like and have talked to raptor about on a few occasions, not sure if he's done it though), there's too much inhibition. Overriding that inhibition is going to occur through a completely voluntary mechanism, unlike with dj's, where it's a protective overriding of the inhibition. So dj's, in my mind, would improve qualities quicker than your idea, BUT, your idea definitely can yield gains, it would just take some serious focus & lack of injuries.. I think you should call your approach "shock runups", because really it is voluntarily trying to override that which your body is comfortable with, not by a small margin either, by a LARGE margin.. a 4-5 step runup is intense as it is, but a 7-9 step runup is just really insane, so it is shocklike imo.

So here is the exercise that I propose, it's pretty damn simple, I'm sure people have done this already, but while it's on my mind I'm posting it. It aims to improve the ability of the posterior chain to convert horizontal velocity/power to vertical velocity/power

1. Run faster than you ever would for a running vertical jump
2. Jump as high as possible.

posterior chain shouldn't really be brought into this, sure you're utilizing more p-chain in the runup because of the higher velocity of the runup and the increasing number of strides, but the ability to put on the breaks, absorb than runup force in a very small time frame, and then jump, is VERY quad dominant. It would be p-chain dominant if you were broad jumping for horizontal distance... but again, we're talking vert, so putting on the breaks in itself relies most heavily on the quads, jumping vertical = quads, so your technique is going to target the quads more than p-chain.

Start with three fast steps, then progress to five, seven, nine, and a full sprint if that's even possible. You may be surprised how high you can jump. Someone who is very good at converting horizontal velocity to vertical is TDUB. In this video he has jumped faster than anything I have ever seen, probably as fast as Darlington or faster. He also does not get as deep as he usually does, maybe this is related to his tremendous ability to absorb force in the pchain?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg4oPtERYqY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg4oPtERYqY</a>

why would not going deep signify tremendous ability to absorb force in the p-chain, on the flip side, it shows tremendous ability to absorb force in the quads/calfs, since they are both highly loaded. If his body was getting him to absorb more in the p-chain, he'd be deeper in the plant, as the deeper you go, the more glute/ham recruitment you're going to get.. I think it shows you how strong his quads/calfs are, watch the vid in slow mo, watch how he sits into it with his right leg first and then just digs in very stiff with that left leg, significantly stopping his momentum, that's serious quad/calf. If you watch alot of t-dub vids, you'll notice his heels are rarely flat on the ground in his plants, he's getting SERIOUS calf contribution in his jumps.. he's a spring.

but ya i agree that is one of the most psychotic jumps i've ever seen, love that video so much.

Problems with this method: targets Pchain heavily, and is therefore not completely specific to a vertical jump...lol, of course only a running vertical jump is completely specific. After one workout, the potentiation from your CNS may cause you to favor the pchain more in regular jumps, so that is something to think about for long term use. I get potentiation effects very easily so I don't know about you. I plan to do this in a week when I will be off weights.

Rest up,
Avishek

I think this style of training could be risky due to it's "shocklike" properties, you're basically trying to voluntarily override your body's natural tendency to inhibit that kind of speed into the plant.. that's really hardcore.. so anyone who messes with this needs to be:
1. in great shape
2. very experienced
3. good at knowing what's going on with their body during training sessions
4. healthy


i've played with it a few times, going from 6-7 steps, i actually have gotten some nice jumps in, nothing over my maxes at the time, but it completely haywires me.. jumping for the first time after, i get a nice jump in, then after that, session turns to crap very quick. just seems to really cause me to drop off fast... so that is a sign it could be very effective if someone sticks to it.

peace man

yeah i took a video with them when my legs were shot so ill just make a new one tomorrow since ive had time to rest.

only thing i dont like to do in them is squat, come up on my toes to much

after some reviewing.

when my legs were dead as fuck, in the shoes I'm getting .08 seconds higher in them than my bball shoes when i was fresh

ya they are hard to squat in because you actually sink in your heel instead of having the heel raised like in most shoes.

pc

Explaining more what helping what you mean...like a high jumper running path??

since i had this vid open, i'll use this, kinda like that..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQw5MRbnZ_0

check the slow mo, see how that small curve is causing me to plant in 'rotation' and really get me going VERY vertical.. i hardly go horizontal at all really.. very minimal.. the force absorbed/produced is pretty much all contributing to going vertical, that's how my weak ass gets up a little better than i should be getting lol.

you're coming in from straight away it looks like, just a pure bilateral plant, you're not really sinking into the plant and really absorbing all of that runup speed, which will allow you to produce more force.. just something to mess around with, you're basically just murdering the ground to get up, if you come in quick on a bit more of a curve, you'll absorb more force AND still murder the ground.. absorbing more force will allow you to produce more.

hope that helps, just incorporate more of those if you're not already.. you're heavily strength trained so your body is going to try and force you into a linear-bilateral-plant, so just get in a few curve runup/jumps each session to get your NEUROPHYSIOLOGIEZ to start adjusting/adaptating to that style.

peace man

what i figure im gonna start doing is adarqs high frequency thing or whatever he did when he squatted like 21 times a month.

try it out, see how well it goes, since i kinda did it for a week when i first started deadlifts.

when i did it with deadlifts ( i didnt know people actually did it at the time, just dicked around)

day 1- max 315lbs
day 2- max 340lbs
day 3- max 365lbs
day 4- max 380lbs
day 4- max 405lbs

and ever since then, my deadlift hasnt really gone up to much cept the brief time it was at 500 but its nowhere near that anymore, but it never drops below 405lbs

cool man, that was good progress with DL, just remember, your "max" changes daily when squatting 21x/month, so, don't really try and push it when you feel like shit, though definitely get to that daily max triple etc, can hold back a little when you experience tons of fatigue.. for example, say you hit 405 x 3 on monday, well, 365 x 3 might be all you can do on tuesday etc, just don't force out grinder's.

pc

fuck man, u might need to pray to god of vert/jumping, bball, jesus and any1 else you can think of for head hitting rim thing

im air jesus, i pray to no one.

http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/newyear.html


^^ you only got a few day!!! where you at now bro, how many inches???

dno, but im peaking now, so we'll see soon.

gotta rest up abit for now tho haha.

cant even move properly now, and last night was worse. couldnt even put any weight on the foot.  

holy shit.........................

if you have access to docs/medical, i'd definitely get it checked out..

man this sucks.