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Messages - TKXII

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61
Article & Video Discussion / Re: Squats vs. Performance
« on: September 30, 2013, 10:12:23 pm »
Bondarchuk said what T0dday just said; that improving general strength only helps beginners and does not help with elite athletes. he syudied throwers though, and found that the strongest squatters wwre definitely not the best throwers. the best throwers certainly were nlt weak howeevr in the squat.

http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2012/08/30/thoughts-on-bondarchuk/

I'm simply taking this a step further to delineate a motor pattern competition theory. I also agree that squatting being detrimental to my top speed may be specific to my body type - long levers short torso. However, even deadlifting makes me feel a lot slower and "stuck" to the ground. When I stop lifting heavy like a oly or pl, my legs learn a new motor pattern and this increases sprint speed, and also running vertical jump, although with running vertical jump you can be super fast and super slow and still jump really high so I'm not going to argue that my squats decreased RVJ. But I don't think they helped much.

So yea, squats hurt my sprint performance because hey inhibit knee extension during the swig phase of sprint.aybe his article can explain that better: http://inno-sport.net/Sprinter%20Symptoms.htm

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Article & Video Discussion / Re: Squats vs. Performance
« on: September 30, 2013, 03:09:37 pm »
haven't read everything but in response to a few people i'll reiterate:

1. No I wasn't tired. at all. my legs moved differently and i was slower when I was in a qud dominant state from doing a lot of squats/lunges. Take away squats and it seems to free up  my legs to move properly for top speed
2. Practicing the movements WHILE squatting still was counterproductive. I'm talking about top speed here. (For running vertical jump I think that's more complex to discuss, but not practicing jumping made me lose power, and squatting more couldn't make up for it). It was like I got sort of good at each one but they hindered each other. This becomes really apparent AFTER acceleration. Most studies I've looked at today study squat/sprint times up to 30m sprints and no further so I'll need to find more articles.
3. Ben Johnson is the only sprinter to my knowledge who squatted that much and those were 1/2 box squats. I've met a 10.1 sprinter who quarter squatted 585 for reps. He called them "power squats." I feel like half and quarter squats do NOT lead to the same quad dominant feeling that slows me down on the track.

http://speedendurance.com/2013/01/21/3-reasons-the-squat-is-not-the-cornerstone-of-strength-training-for-sprinters/

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Article & Video Discussion / Re: Squats vs. Performance
« on: September 30, 2013, 12:47:16 am »
The difference is in how your body reacts to training.

agree.

Any relative strength gain should have a positive correlation to your jump/sprint times as long as you can express it efficiently.  Without this you can get as strong as you want and it wont matter. You still have to practice the movements regularly to see gains.

Now I REALLY REALLY disagree with this. I just don't see this to be true unless the exercise in which relative strength was gained has serious transfer to the activity in question; i.e. squat strength to sprint speed, or even to running vertical jump. Even for an exercise that is more specific, such as a deadlift, increases in relative strength may be irrelevant past a certain point for a sprinter and may do more harm than good by converting type iib fibers to iia. Increases in relative squat strength from squatting may reduce a running vertical jump because now the athlete cannot handle eccentric forces as well and as fast form not jumping as often and thus will have less speed during the run up - this would be very likely to happen if you took a high jumper and told him to just squat and deadlift for a while. In my personal experience, even if I try to maintain plyometric training while strength training, strength training reduces my rate of force development no matter what. My bounding decreases, my speed and jumps decrease. My running vertical dropped 4 inches when I tested it once after I reached 315lbs in the squat. But I wasn't practicing it at all. However occasional bounding helped bring me up to PR levels. But as long as I had some deep heavy squatting in my program I could never feel as explosive as without any heavy/slow training, that could be due to the neural adaptations but also conversion of type IIb fibers to IIa. However for something more specific like the RVJ, i would jump slightly higher, not a ton higher because I was slow. As Kelly Baggett has said, the biggest gains from strength training for vertical come during the phase where we try to express the strength through more specific exercises. That's the phase I'm on now and it causes my squat/deadlift numbers to plummet a shitload, causing me to wonder why I would do it in the first place.

So theoretically increases in relative strength should increase performance in the activity in question if that activity is practiced so it might be irrelevant to bring what I just said up . . . but there is a reason why in season athletes don't strength train rigorously. And from my experience it's because it just takes away from the movements required for the sport - that's only if the strength training isn't that specific such as deep squats for TOP speed. Contrast that with hip thrusts for top speed training. In my experience with squats to improve sprints, even my acceleration feels slower with a lot of heavy squatting. But my top speed feels like absolute shit - I have no pull in my stride at all and I can feel my quads trying to push vertically into the ground like a squat, and forcing myself to pull with my hamstrings is probably what caused me to pull them nearly twice. Now I'm not spending 5d/wk on the track, but my idea is that these motor patterns compete. So strength training should be HIGHLY specific. Squatting for vertical jump increases is different. Squatting deep for increases in TOP SPEED, now that's not very specific. Deadlifts for top speed, I can't confidently say that would hurt a sprinter at all, but since I want to increase my top speed right now, I'm not going to do any deep squats (even though I badly want to). 

We all can find examples to support each point certainly; the athletes in Contreras's article cast doubt on traditional strength training but inspirational stories from Kingfush's training journal, the Rutgersdunker youtube channel, and other accounts of people improving athleticism through traditional strength training provide support for the idea that increases in relative strength improve performance in sport (neither of them are sprinting though, well Kingfush has said he wants to do a 60 don't know if he has yet). Maybe this shows that people respond differently to training . . . if they're increasing their vertical jump, increasing force production and spending less time on the ground, it doesn't matter how they got there. But maybe their muscles/tendons are acting completely differently; the people who squat a lot may jump using different machinery than people like jordan kilganon who is just a beast who can't squat much at all.

With my experiences in improving running vertical jump, I think squatting has helped me absorb more force during the plant and has increased my movement efficiency during the movement and overall has increased running vert, but slightly more so for reasons other than being able to squat more. I simply feel "weaker" when I start to do exercises that are supposed to convert the strength to speed and power and I lose strength so once I again I just question what the point of doing it was. Efforts to maintain strength simply result in my being slower because I spend time doing slow lifting...  I'm not trying to get attached to any one specific idea so I am starting to let go of training for max strength but if someone can explain in depth how to set up a proper program to avoid competing motor patterns I would be delighted to read it.

64
Article & Video Discussion / Re: Squats vs. Performance
« on: September 29, 2013, 03:48:52 pm »
Very true to your first part Avishek. You have to cultivate strength occasionally ANDthe differing stimuli from switching up training/exercises/rep schemes can shock the body towards gains as well.

What do you mean? What purpose will cultivating strength "occasionally" vs. regularly serve? What purpose will cultivating weight room strength regularly serve? I mean that seriously as I'm really starting to doubt the use of squats and deadlifts as a valid way of improving athletic performance, or at least, as a fundamental way of improving strength. I think "strength" should be redefined, and squat strength may not have a strong correlation with force production at joint angles specific to top speed sprinting or even a running vertical jump, as much as I would like to believe it would.

To sort of answer your question in the above post, I read a while ago how the best UK long jumpers can produce over 5000N of isometric force in an isometric squat test. Don't know what the consensus is but that number isn't unachievable without good numbers in the gym.
http://www.elitetrack.com/forums/viewthread/10165/#92131

65
Article & Video Discussion / Re: Squats vs. Performance
« on: September 29, 2013, 01:01:11 pm »
The article on Usain Bolt from that above article was also a neat read, although it kinda sounds like a cover letter lol to be Bolt's assistant athletic trainer:
http://bretcontreras.com/how-does-usain-bolt-train/

66
Article & Video Discussion / Re: Squats vs. Performance
« on: September 29, 2013, 12:48:27 pm »
This was truly a great read. I feel like on this forum most people take a periodized approach to training emphasizing gaining strength, but many get fixated on the gaining strength part, and then it doesn't yield the gains in athleticism that were expected.

68
Mybe your anterior pic tilt makes it difficult

69
Pics, Videos, & Links / Re: 4 Step Approach Practice
« on: September 15, 2013, 11:44:00 pm »
It's not bad. The first thing to fix is that penultimate step, the one that sets you up to plant in LR.
Your heel should be low, if it is not, you will end up jumping forwards as you do. You will also lose a lot of of potential energy as your plant will act more like a brake. Imagine that your LR plant was two inches below your penultimate step, as if there was a mild drop. You will not jump as high.
So keep that left heel really low while dropping the cog during that penultimate. Watch a bunch if videos and it'll come naturally.

Lastly instead of thinking LR LR, think in threes. Initial step with the L, then RLR. Thats what your legs looked to be doing anyway. There seems to be a universal preference to take three steps preceded by a light hop or first lead in step before planting for a vertical jump off of one or two

70
Pics, Videos, & Links / Re: Can a bodybuilder be a gymnast?
« on: September 15, 2013, 06:54:50 pm »
If children are exposed to physical activity at a young age, and a variety of sports involving coordination their ability to learn new activities in adulthood requiring coordination is much better than adults who were not as physically active.

I answer yes definitely, but some people learn new movements much faster due to better motor coordination.

And I want to do this stuff really relaly badly. GAHH. not enough time. not enough money. but one day I will devote myself obsessively to parkour and gymnastics/tricking.

71
Pics, Videos, & Links / Re: beast
« on: September 13, 2013, 09:37:53 pm »
it's a serval, not a cheetah.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jry4xxuj948" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jry4xxuj948</a>

but cheetahs jump very high too, if I find the video i'm looking for I'll post that too

73
MUSiC anD SHeeT! / Re: What Are You Listening To Right Now?
« on: September 05, 2013, 07:12:34 am »
trying to get better at freestyling so I use instrumentals. I this is one of my favorites recently:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdyFuaGUw64" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdyFuaGUw64</a>

74
Pics, Videos, & Links / Re: beast
« on: August 12, 2013, 09:16:28 am »
First of all it's great he can do this at his age... but look at those drop landings! At 3:35. He doesn't even need to do a roll at the landing like the other guy does.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqN5F2V3oCo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqN5F2V3oCo</a>

75

Hell, I'd bet money that if you just ate cleaner and lifted you'd cut BF%.

My preferred and recommended approach. THe approach that got me to 10-11%bf consistently with a 6pack at 160lbs from 14-15% bf and struggling to see my abs at 140lbs over four years of college... I may have been a little lower bodyfat at 150lbs actually a couple years ago but haven't added much since.

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