Author Topic: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High (Read 840869 times)

FP · « **Reply #1905 on:** May 14, 2023, 08:56:30 pm »

Sorry, I was thinking of depth drops. I was trying to find the source video from where I got that bit of advice but haven't found it yet. It was actually a mix of 2 things, one of Cal Dietz videos where says that he has found that depth jumps end up improving ankle function in particular despite popular belief that it also improves knee and hip explosiveness. The other thing was a Just Fly episode where I think it was either Dan Fichter or Chris Korfist talking about using higher depth drops for developing force absorption, I think in terms of sprinting. I really need to be more organized, I skimmed some videos and podcast episodes and couldn't find either comment, hopefully will get around to it.

I would be careful of single leg depth jumps because I can't imagine you would be perfectly stable landing from that, even though it seems more specific, if the stability is even slightly off (especially for a really dynamic movement absorbing force single leg like that) that will mess with the power output a lot, which you probably know.

Quote from: seifullaah73 on July 31, 2022, 11:38:19 am

Update: Form still sucks lol, I'm covering 10m in 8.5 strides. Not sure if sleds will help but will practice lean aggressively even more so now.

Also groin sprain after session as painful to walk today.

EDIT: after beating myself up over it and next day (today) looking back at it, the lean looks pretty good, but not putting enough power into the ground and therefore the 3rd step not really projecting forward just energy dying or something, and the 8.5 to 9 steps to 10m.

I will try and improve on the lean just by practicing but will move onto sled workout next week. hopefully that should fix the problem.

For the last part, where I said you might not be flexing your hips enough, I was thinking of this vid where the stride seems cut short in the first step, but I was wrong, you seem to have improved that.

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1906 on:** May 15, 2023, 06:45:16 am »

Quote from: FP on May 14, 2023, 08:56:30 pm

Sorry, I was thinking of depth drops. I was trying to find the source video from where I got that bit of advice but haven't found it yet. It was actually a mix of 2 things, one of Cal Dietz videos where says that he has found that depth jumps end up improving ankle function in particular despite popular belief that it also improves knee and hip explosiveness. The other thing was a Just Fly episode where I think it was either Dan Fichter or Chris Korfist talking about using higher depth drops for developing force absorption, I think in terms of sprinting. I really need to be more organized, I skimmed some videos and podcast episodes and couldn't find either comment, hopefully will get around to it.

I would be careful of single leg depth jumps because I can't imagine you would be perfectly stable landing from that, even though it seems more specific, if the stability is even slightly off (especially for a really dynamic movement absorbing force single leg like that) that will mess with the power output a lot, which you probably know.

Quote from: seifullaah73 on July 31, 2022, 11:38:19 am
Update: Form still sucks lol, I'm covering 10m in 8.5 strides. Not sure if sleds will help but will practice lean aggressively even more so now.

Also groin sprain after session as painful to walk today.

EDIT: after beating myself up over it and next day (today) looking back at it, the lean looks pretty good, but not putting enough power into the ground and therefore the 3rd step not really projecting forward just energy dying or something, and the 8.5 to 9 steps to 10m.

I will try and improve on the lean just by practicing but will move onto sled workout next week. hopefully that should fix the problem.

For the last part, where I said you might not be flexing your hips enough, I was thinking of this vid where the stride seems cut short in the first step, but I was wrong, you seem to have improved that.

I tried single leg depth jumps, it is too difficult, especially if one doesn't have stiff ankles it just goes wrong, so yeah not going to do that. Depth drop makes sense and then after progressing from that is land the drop and then single leg jump onto a small box. instead of reactive it's stability and then strength. Numerous ankle twists may have weakened my ankle strength.

You talking about not extending the hips, it is true even if my first step is improved but the following steps the hip extensions decays, so aim is to maintain hip extension during drive phrase until upright then not really an issue but from start to end I need to try keep knees closed as during drive phase it's easier for negative foot movement and in upright it helps with the vertical force development and doing strides with knees closed compared to knees open big difference in stride pattern and less stress on lower limbs.

FP · « **Reply #1907 on:** May 15, 2023, 11:13:15 am »

Quote from: seifullaah73 on May 15, 2023, 06:45:16 am

Quote from: FP on May 14, 2023, 08:56:30 pm
Sorry, I was thinking of depth drops. I was trying to find the source video from where I got that bit of advice but haven't found it yet. It was actually a mix of 2 things, one of Cal Dietz videos where says that he has found that depth jumps end up improving ankle function in particular despite popular belief that it also improves knee and hip explosiveness. The other thing was a Just Fly episode where I think it was either Dan Fichter or Chris Korfist talking about using higher depth drops for developing force absorption, I think in terms of sprinting. I really need to be more organized, I skimmed some videos and podcast episodes and couldn't find either comment, hopefully will get around to it.

I would be careful of single leg depth jumps because I can't imagine you would be perfectly stable landing from that, even though it seems more specific, if the stability is even slightly off (especially for a really dynamic movement absorbing force single leg like that) that will mess with the power output a lot, which you probably know.

Quote from: seifullaah73 on July 31, 2022, 11:38:19 am
Update: Form still sucks lol, I'm covering 10m in 8.5 strides. Not sure if sleds will help but will practice lean aggressively even more so now.

Also groin sprain after session as painful to walk today.

EDIT: after beating myself up over it and next day (today) looking back at it, the lean looks pretty good, but not putting enough power into the ground and therefore the 3rd step not really projecting forward just energy dying or something, and the 8.5 to 9 steps to 10m.

I will try and improve on the lean just by practicing but will move onto sled workout next week. hopefully that should fix the problem.

For the last part, where I said you might not be flexing your hips enough, I was thinking of this vid where the stride seems cut short in the first step, but I was wrong, you seem to have improved that.

I tried single leg depth jumps, it is too difficult, especially if one doesn't have stiff ankles it just goes wrong, so yeah not going to do that. Depth drop makes sense and then after progressing from that is land the drop and then single leg jump onto a small box. instead of reactive it's stability and then strength. Numerous ankle twists may have weakened my ankle strength.

You talking about not extending the hips, it is true even if my first step is improved but the following steps the hip extensions decays, so aim is to maintain hip extension during drive phrase until upright then not really an issue but from start to end I need to try keep knees closed as during drive phase it's easier for negative foot movement and in upright it helps with the vertical force development and doing strides with knees closed compared to knees open big difference in stride pattern and less stress on lower limbs.

Hip flexion. Flexion. You might also be not fully extending but i was talking about your stride being cut short at the end of swing phase.

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1908 on:** May 17, 2023, 03:56:57 pm »

Quote from: FP on May 15, 2023, 11:13:15 am

Hip flexion. Flexion. You might also be not fully extending but i was talking about your stride being cut short at the end of swing phase.

Isn't the end of the swing phase the part where my knees extend and about to make contact with the ground. How would the hip flexion play role here. Hip flexion would be the from the start of the swing phase to end of the knee drive.
Or am I misunderstanding something.

I've also developed some method of sticking some ball to the back of my calves near the back of the knee, as a reference point to keep knee angle small during swing phase.

Also will use tape method to get that knee closed. But maybe the main problem is cutting strides short from 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th steps.

FP · « **Reply #1909 on:** May 18, 2023, 05:49:46 pm »

Quote from: seifullaah73 on May 17, 2023, 03:56:57 pm

Quote from: FP on May 15, 2023, 11:13:15 am

Hip flexion. Flexion. You might also be not fully extending but i was talking about your stride being cut short at the end of swing phase.

Isn't the end of the swing phase the part where my knees extend and about to make contact with the ground. How would the hip flexion play role here. Hip flexion would be the from the start of the swing phase to end of the knee drive.
Or am I misunderstanding something.

I've also developed some method of sticking some ball to the back of my calves near the back of the knee, as a reference point to keep knee angle small during swing phase.

Also will use tape method to get that knee closed. But maybe the main problem is cutting strides short from 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th steps.

Yes, that is what I am talking about. If you watch the video, at the end of hip flexion/swing/knee drive phase instead of planting your foot like most sprinters you bring it back a little bit and then plant it part of the way through stance phase. One of the possible causes I thought you were planting further back was that you were not getting your weight forward enough. But that is an older video and it seems better in the new ones.

I'm not a sprint coach: the rest of the stuff I said about foot and ankle power improvement I am pretty sure will help but like I said that last comment I made in the original post was just my opinionated take on your mechanics.

FP · « **Reply #1910 on:** May 21, 2023, 01:46:31 am »

Hey so I found the podcast episode that talks about depth drops, although its only briefly touched on in the context of sprinting

https://www.just-fly-sports.com/podcast-319/
Altitude drops at 19 mins in, gets a little more to the point at 21 mins
Also in the podcast theres mention of shin angle at 60 mins, bascially saying you can't get good shin angles without high strength/power levels and cues might not help. Not sure how much that would apply to you.

So you might know that a bunch of the force generated in each step of top speed has to be vertical force, and a large portion of that is absorbing the vertical impact when landing from each step. Quote from textbook: elite sprinters tend to produce most of the total vertical force in the first half of the ground contact, while nonelite sprinters produce vertical force distributed throughout the entire GCT. So the speed at which vertical force is produced eccentrically (when landing) and concentrically is important, which Is why I think the altitude drops should carryover. Definitely something to be really careful with though.

I have some other helpful stuff from the textbook in the speed and reactivity discussion part of the board, under the title agility and speed. I starred the stuff I thought was especially helpful.

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1911 on:** May 21, 2023, 02:40:31 pm »

Its finally here, my weekly session recap video including my sprint starts. I managed to get 5 sprint starts in but some there were stumbles but they felt slow, but I recently started taping scrunched up newspaper to the back of my knees so I focussing on squeezing the papers with my calves and hamstring to keep the knee angle closed as a reference point to keeping the knee angle closed but because it was so early didn't expect to have a lot of carryover yet to my sprint, need to develop the muscle memory.

The sprint starts are from 5:50, before are my drills and from the start are my gym sessions
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h80yEBEKHmE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h80yEBEKHmE</a>

FP · « **Reply #1912 on:** May 25, 2023, 03:35:03 am »

Quote from: seifullaah73 on May 21, 2023, 02:40:31 pm

Its finally here, my weekly session recap video including my sprint starts. I managed to get 5 sprint starts in but some there were stumbles but they felt slow, but I recently started taping scrunched up newspaper to the back of my knees so I focussing on squeezing the papers with my calves and hamstring to keep the knee angle closed as a reference point to keeping the knee angle closed but because it was so early didn't expect to have a lot of carryover yet to my sprint, need to develop the muscle memory.

The sprint starts are from 5:50, before are my drills and from the start are my gym sessions

Hey it seems like your strength has increased a fair amount and I think that's really good!! It's great to see you really committing towards improvement and putting in so much dedicated work.

Here are a few things I would do differently:
-On the pin squats I would still maintain body tension out the bottom, I wouldn't relax after setting the weight down on the pins. I remember you said you had some SIJ problems so I understand that that might play a role.
-On the trap bar deads, I would either reduce the weight if you're going for explosiveness or try to stay more stable and maybe eliminate the jump if you're going for strength.
-On the cleans, I might be wrong but it looks to me like you are getting most of the driving force by popping it up with your quads in the upper RoM, and less involvement from full hip extension. I had the same problem. It's a pretty complex move and I can't really coach you how to fix it, and there isn't too much resources for it.
Here's a video that might be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3aaqhiW3f4
You can also try this as a warmup to get more hip involvement (he shows the drill at 9:30): (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WihPXoSVkiw&t=845s). He rounds the back during the drill, and obviously don't do that during the cleans, but it was a really helpful drill for me for more p-chain involvement.
-I think for the starts, sleds or hills might help get more forward lean and knee angle. But if you do sleds, I wouldn't do them like in the previous sled video you posted, where you're almost bounding while doing them. Instead I would go heavier, with the technique more like this https://youtube.com/shorts/81TS335Yi6g?feature=share. I think that will help a lot with the knee angles you've been working on recently.

I hope this isn't too much criticism! I think you're doing a great job. Last I also want to add that if your goal is to sprint, it's probably good to remember that the start is just a small part of the whole sprint and the weight room stuff might not carry over much to top speed.

If anyone else has feedback or disagrees with anything I said definitely pitch in!!!

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1913 on:** May 25, 2023, 08:23:06 pm »

Quote from: FP on May 25, 2023, 03:35:03 am

Quote from: seifullaah73 on May 21, 2023, 02:40:31 pm
Its finally here, my weekly session recap video including my sprint starts. I managed to get 5 sprint starts in but some there were stumbles but they felt slow, but I recently started taping scrunched up newspaper to the back of my knees so I focussing on squeezing the papers with my calves and hamstring to keep the knee angle closed as a reference point to keeping the knee angle closed but because it was so early didn't expect to have a lot of carryover yet to my sprint, need to develop the muscle memory.

The sprint starts are from 5:50, before are my drills and from the start are my gym sessions

Hey it seems like your strength has increased a fair amount and I think that's really good!! It's great to see you really committing towards improvement and putting in so much dedicated work.

Here are a few things I would do differently:
-On the pin squats I would still maintain body tension out the bottom, I wouldn't relax after setting the weight down on the pins. I remember you said you had some SIJ problems so I understand that that might play a role.
-On the trap bar deads, I would either reduce the weight if you're going for explosiveness or try to stay more stable and maybe eliminate the jump if you're going for strength.
-On the cleans, I might be wrong but it looks to me like you are getting most of the driving force by popping it up with your quads in the upper RoM, and less involvement from full hip extension. I had the same problem. It's a pretty complex move and I can't really coach you how to fix it, and there isn't too much resources for it.
Here's a video that might be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3aaqhiW3f4
You can also try this as a warmup to get more hip involvement (he shows the drill at 9:30): (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WihPXoSVkiw&t=845s). He rounds the back during the drill, and obviously don't do that during the cleans, but it was a really helpful drill for me for more p-chain involvement.
-I think for the starts, sleds or hills might help get more forward lean and knee angle. But if you do sleds, I wouldn't do them like in the previous sled video you posted, where you're almost bounding while doing them. Instead I would go heavier, with the technique more like this https://youtube.com/shorts/81TS335Yi6g?feature=share. I think that will help a lot with the knee angles you've been working on recently.

I hope this isn't too much criticism! I think you're doing a great job. Last I also want to add that if your goal is to sprint, it's probably good to remember that the start is just a small part of the whole sprint and the weight room stuff might not carry over much to top speed.

If anyone else has feedback or disagrees with anything I said definitely pitch in!!!

Thanks for the feedback. I stopped posting videos of analysis as it gets lost in my journal with little feedback, but am grateful for your input.

Will implement the changes to the lifts you mentioned, today I did power cleans and I just did slow 1st pull then hit my quads as a cue and snap hip forward and pull bar up, but hang cleans very little ROM to develop power so it goes out the window. Just looked back at the video lol jump squats 180kg lol it was 80kg. The aim of the hex bar jumps is to develop power more than strength.

I was thinking of doing light sleds acceleration bounds with it, to develop power and then add the heavy sled you mentioned, I wasn't ready to do sleds because my form didn't look good but I think it's good enough to start using that form on sleds.

I don't really have a goal in mind with the sprints except be technically proficient in the sprint, starting from the acceleration and work my way up.

One thing I find difficult is getting advice from coaches, I don't know why, people's criticism or even joking. Hopefully the opportunity presents itself and I can get help from a coach but I fear that his method will not be to my liking. But i'm happy where i am at, dealing with shin splits, icing seems like a temporary solution as soon as I go back to sprints then the pain comes back.

Next week 3rd June, heading to tanzania, meet family, hopefully get a place to train, even if just small bands and sprint drills.

FP · « **Reply #1914 on:** May 26, 2023, 05:24:45 pm »

Yeah dude im the same way, dont deal with criticism too well. I think with exercise science its kind of tough cause theres probably many ways to approach the same problem. And many people who give opinions on the right way, maybe that way has worked for them or others, but if the theory doesnt make sense to me or the person presents it like its the only way to go about it that can be irritating.

I think for shin splints tibialis raises or walking on the heels with toes and balls of feet off the ground for time was something that helped me.

If I were training for sprint and focusing on acceleration, i would try to do maintenance sprint sessions for top speed maybe at least once every few weeks, to make sure you dont lose your top speed, cause doing lots of weight room stuff without any maintenance speed work can have that effect. I remember a few years ago i committed to a really intense squat program to build a foundation for athleticism, but didnt play much ultimate during that time and when I started playing again my athleticism was horrible because my body had fully adapted to squatting. Maybe you already do enough with the track work you do though.

Hope you have fun on your vacation!

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1915 on:** May 27, 2023, 07:26:57 am »

Quote from: FP on May 26, 2023, 05:24:45 pm

Yeah dude im the same way, dont deal with criticism too well. I think with exercise science its kind of tough cause theres probably many ways to approach the same problem. And many people who give opinions on the right way, maybe that way has worked for them or others, but if the theory doesnt make sense to me or the person presents it like its the only way to go about it that can be irritating.

I think for shin splints tibialis raises or walking on the heels with toes and balls of feet off the ground for time was something that helped me.

If I were training for sprint and focusing on acceleration, i would try to do maintenance sprint sessions for top speed maybe at least once every few weeks, to make sure you dont lose your top speed, cause doing lots of weight room stuff without any maintenance speed work can have that effect. I remember a few years ago i committed to a really intense squat program to build a foundation for athleticism, but didnt play much ultimate during that time and when I started playing again my athleticism was horrible because my body had fully adapted to squatting. Maybe you already do enough with the track work you do though.

Hope you have fun on your vacation!

Thanks. Hopefully I can get some time on the beach and do barefoot stuff for shins too.

Exactly As you described in the first paragraph.

I also did top speed maintenance like once a week by doing floats i.e. accelerate 10m than float the rest as best as I can, which is a struggle as I start at the 80m mark, then accelerate 20m and then finally 30m and maintain 50m. I then realized I was running cross legged so also recently started doing crab like walks forward and side ways for the glute.

Will start doing heel walks everyday.

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1916 on:** May 28, 2023, 12:46:36 pm »

Date: 28/05/2023

Soreness: mild shin pain nothing major

Condition: it was really warm outside, dry and nice track condition.

Warm up
Bicycle warm up
Dynamic stretches
Hip mobility hurdle
Track warm up drills
Specific drills

Workout
Heavy sled marches with focus on driving leg back with knee angle maintained
3 x 15m @ 80kg

Sled pulls
3 x 15m @60kg

Sled sprints
2 x 15m @40kg

Horizontal bounds with Sled
1 x 30m bounds @20kg

Cool down
Stretch

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1917 on:** May 30, 2023, 04:05:54 pm »

Date: 30/05/2023
Soreness: shins, which get better after rest

Condition: a little cold and windy outside, got to the gym early as didn't go into work, 5:30pm and finished at 7:15pm.

Warm up
bicycle
stretches

Track workout
Speed drills
sprint float workout
- 2 x 20m slow comfortable acceleration followed by 30m float maintenance - the faster I am running upright the more my body wants to running cross legged so I have to fix myself mid run to run straight
- 2 x 20m moderate acceleration then 30m float maintenance
Note: the cue of striking down directly when upright during top speed phase seems to not make sense as there is high chances of understriding, striking behind centre and causing you to sometimes almost miss the ground and can make you fall forward if you continued so maybe hit slightly forward and down.

Workout
Box Squat jumps continuous
- 1 x 5 x 20kg
- 3 x 5 @60kg

contrasted with single leg box jumps

single seated hamstring leg curls pulling towards me
- 1 x 4 each leg @25kg
- 2 x 5 each leg @40kg

spring iso ankle exercise
- 2 x 30 - 40 sec hold at tip of toe position @15kg dumbbell in one hand

dumbbell shoulder press
- 1 x 3 @6kg each hand
- 2 x 7,10 @12.5kg dumbbells in each hand

Cool down
stretch

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1918 on:** June 01, 2023, 07:24:54 pm »

Date: 01/06/2023
Soreness: shins during runs and then it subdued over time

Condition: Warm and started to get windy and slightly cold, got to the gym 5:30 and finished 8:15.

Warm up
cycle
stretches

Track Workout
Sprint drills
accelerations with behind the knee

Workout
Hex bar jumps
- 1 x 3 @30kg
- 1 x 3 @50kg
- 3 x 5 @80kg

Contrasted with straight leg box jumps knee height

Walking on toes with dumbbells
- 1 x 5m @5kg dumbbells in each hand
- 3 x 15 - 20m @holding 25kg dumbbells in each hand

contrasted with shock drops landing on balls of foot only

hang cleans
- 1 x 3 @20kg
- 1 x 3 @40kg
- 3 x 3 @50kg

arm swings with dumbbells
- 1 x 5 each arm swing @5kg dumbbells in each hand
- 2 x 10 each arm swing @12.5kg dumbbells in each hand

cool down
stretch

seifullaah73 · « **Reply #1919 on:** June 04, 2023, 12:18:10 pm »

No speed session today as going to tanzania.

The plane from UK to Saudi was delayed by 1hr due to some technical difficulties and therefore missed the transit flight to tanzania, as when I arrived it was boarding time already, 20 min before flight gate closes and I had 10 mins to get to the furthest gate.

So had to wait for assistance, kindly arranged free next flight another transit via Ethiopia and stayed in airport hotel for next day flight.

Currently 4hrs 30min till final flight to tanzania, God willing, the visa process will go smoothly and start my holiday/relatives wedding.

Adarq.org

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Author Topic: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High (Read 840869 times)

FP

Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High

seifullaah73

Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High

FP

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seifullaah73

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FP

Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High

FP

Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High

seifullaah73

Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High

FP

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seifullaah73

Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High

FP

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seifullaah73

Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High

seifullaah73

Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High

seifullaah73

Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High

seifullaah73

Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High

seifullaah73

Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High