Author Topic: Two Hands Two Feet  (Read 129999 times)

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Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2012, 06:49:33 pm »
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It's easy to see that for you since you have such a low speed run-up. You're basically walking out there and jumping with such a low speed. Since the one-leg jump has much less strength to be applied due to a single leg muscles power output, you need to compensate by having good initial speed that basically makes you lighter. The one-leg jump is about conserving what you're already worked for to generate (the run up) and converting that into vertical momentum.

Compare yourself with me here:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmODiHirz6o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmODiHirz6o</a>

Even though it's a missed dunk, see the huge difference in speed. I kinda pushed to get really fast there and that's a bit over my controllable speed though. And obviously you can't LITERALLY compare to me or anybody else because of so many factors affecting approach speed, but still... something to think about.

I think the "correct" equation of jumping should be movement efficiency * structure * power ... you need to see where you need to improve. If you have decent structure (and flexibility goes to structure as well since it alters the posture and center of mass) and you have power then maybe you should improve your movement efficiency, which means you need to jump more often.

It's a really good point and probably a reason why I seem to jump higher in game situations than in practice. It's also the intensity I'm noticing. In your vid and in others I've been watching. I seem to be pretty laid back on approach whereas you and the others are more aggressive in the approach including the additional speed. I'm really keen to try this out but it sucks that I have to wait till the groin is better.

Taking into account what you're saying above I probably need to work on a couple of things. Movement efficiency- off both one and two legs. My two leg jumps are horrible. Structure- Core strength as I feel I leak a lot of power here. Power- well yeah I need to get stronger overall anyway but focus on bringing up hams, glutes and calves.   

Mate thanks again for your help. It's nice to be able to fit more of the pieces together on this one. I'm sure I can gain a few inches in height just off this information alone.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Raptor

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2012, 07:39:02 pm »
+1
Yeah once you identify with some aproximacy what you need to do it's then a matter of doing it, and planning properly to do so.

Raptor

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2012, 07:47:53 pm »
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Oh, and one more thing: don't expect your controllable approach speed to increase any time soon. It depends a ton on movement efficiency. If your movement efficiency isn't good then you won't be able to do a movement at high speed that you're not confortable doing at slow speed so... it's like dancing. You won't go out there dancing like a superstar without practicing that at a lower speed first.

For example you can see I can use a pretty good speed off one leg and really put out "heart" out there (I really go on with a rage mentality in my one-leg jumps) but if I try to do the same with my two leg jumps that have some 20,000 less practiced jumps I completely shut down in the plant. I plant at high speed and completely collapse in the plant. Sometimes I can't even jump at all (not even 1 inch) - I plant with so much rage that my body shuts down - it's not used to that kind of overload in that movement.

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2012, 11:23:22 pm »
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It's nice to have a plan of where to go with this stuff.

I think my one leg efficiency should be pretty good once I get the speed up and get over the groin injury. Like I was saying I seem to jump much higher in games which is most likely due to intensity. My osteopath was saying I would be breaking down at the hips and core.  Two legs, well that'll be another story all together.

Wow. That's interesting about your body shutting down. I suppose it's all about finding that happy medium to get the most out of your body.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Raptor

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2012, 07:39:05 am »
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I jump higher in game because of two things:

1) Better rate coding;
2) Not being able to be my lazy self. If I'm my lazy self I can't get past the defender so in order to get past him I have to go really fast and then dunk :P

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2012, 06:27:56 pm »
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I jump higher in game because of two things:

1) Better rate coding;
2) Not being able to be my lazy self. If I'm my lazy self I can't get past the defender so in order to get past him I have to go really fast and then dunk :P

Nice.

I'm still trying to get a dunk in a game. Soon I hope.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2012, 07:30:33 pm »
+1
Ball game last night- Top two sides (we're on top based on %). We won 36-33.
Very tough game physically. The refs let a lot go which resulted in the other team getting their panties in a twist in the 2nd half. I got dropped off the ball from a two handed shove to the chest as I was running up the court which saw a few techs given.
I got called for goal tending which in itself is not good but is pleasing from a jumping perspective. I got the ball just after it had hit the backboard. Have the beginnings of a bruise down to my mid forearm where I slapped the backboard afterwards.
Groin pulled up pretty well too. Am sore all over from the game and have a corked thigh but all good.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2012, 05:41:14 pm »
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OK so haven't really trained for over a week. Have been doing corrective exercises for the groinal area and my hips but no formal strength training. Played ball last night and I definitely noticed the difference.
We lost by 12 points. I had a decent game but lacked some power under the ring. Didn't help that the other team had 3 guys my height and the next tallest on my team is 5'11. Also I didn't put up near enough shots.
Groin pulled up really well. No issues as yet so it looks like the corrective stuff is working. Had a guy fall across my right knee which is bugging be just below the knee cap. Can't tell whether it's a strain or a bruise at this stage.

Am going to be training two days a week with weights for the foreseeable future. Work and family life are crazy busy. I feel I can really commit to two days a week and then if I get in the gym for a third great but there's no pressure there to do so.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2012, 06:01:54 pm »
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Alright so after National Gastro Week in my household things are almost returning to normal. Haven't trained in the last week due to a fear of shitting myself whilst squatting. That's a PR I don't want to break.
Played ball last night. Pretty low energy game from me and we lost by 8. I had some good moments and scored 14 but had no energy for second attempts or rebounds late in the game. Have a bye next week so a chance to get some solid training in between now and the next game.
No niggling issues from the game last night aside from general soreness.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

LBSS

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2012, 07:06:40 pm »
+1
Haven't trained in the last week due to a fear of shitting myself whilst squatting. That's a PR I don't want to break.

lol'd in real life.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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sunday: run 14+ km
monday: lift
tuesday: run 10-12 km
wednesday: run 10-12 km
thursday: run 10-12 km
friday: rest
saturday: run tempo/VO2 max/speed x 6-8 km

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2012, 06:04:21 pm »
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06/12/12

Injuries- None
Fatigue- High (sleepless nights from baby)
Time of workout- 8.50pm
Bodyweight- 91.7

Squats
10xbar, 5x40, 5x50, 5x65, 5x75, 8x85

Bench Press
10xbar, 10x30, 5x42.5, 5x50, 12x55

Chins
5,4,4,4

Quick session to get back into it. Had a massive day of eating which left me in less than stellar condition to exercise.
Squats felt good. Was able to sit back more and put more emphasis on hams and glutes. Felt way more stable and knees stopped cracking when going past parallel. 
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2012, 10:32:18 pm »
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9/12/12

Injuries- None
Fatigue- None
Bodyweight- 93.8

A walk with the wife and kids turned into an impromptu 2.5km run. Half the time was pushing a pram weighing around 40kg.
Wasn't too bad. Not a great pace but enough to get the heart pumping a bit.
Finally ended when, after deciding to run on the grass instead of footpath I rolled my ankle in what seemed like a 2ft deep hole. Felt like I needed a rope to get over it...


Either way no residual soreness today. Deads and press tonight.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2012, 05:30:58 pm »
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10/12/12

Injuries- None
Fatigue- None
Bodyweight- 90.6 (really need to weigh myself at the same time everyday- over the last four days I've been between 90.6 and 93.8

Deadlift-
Warm Up- 10xbar, 5x60, 5x70
Work Sets- 5x85, 5x95, 7x110

Military Press-
Warm Up- 10xbar,
Work Sets- 5x25, 5x30, 7x35

Complex Circuit 3x8xbar
Bent Row
Hang Clean
Front Squat
Military Press
Back Squat
Good Morning

Deadlifts didn't feel too bad. Haven't done them for a few weeks so took a bit of time to get the groove back. Was almost squatting the weight up initially and managed to correct that.
The press felt really good. I've changed my technique from when I used to do them and felt much stronger. Weights are minimal but have had shoulder issues in the past so am a little cautious.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 05:34:09 pm by Coges »
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2012, 05:48:56 pm »
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13/12/12

Injuries- None
Fatigue- None
Bodyweight- 92.0. Weighed first thing in morning.

Warm-up= Foam rolled legs, lower back, upper back
Dynamic leg swings and arm swings

Squat-
Warm up- 5xbar, 5x60
Work Sets- 3x70, 3x80, 7x90- probably needed more warming up or more correctly, more technique work. Haven't got a solid groove going on.

Bench-
Warm up- 10xbar, 35x5
Work Sets- 3x45, 3x52.5, 10x60

Complex Circuit 3x3x30kg
Bent Row
Hang Clean
Front Squat
Military Press
Back Squat 
Good Morning

Back into the swing of things and building some momentum. Feeling really good about how I'm progressing and want to keep things pretty simple for the next little while. Was looking back at a training journal from a while back and I've really been stuck around the same weights for the last couple of years due to inconsistent training. If I progress using 531 as I am now and make smallish jumps per cycle (2.5kg for bench and press and 5kg for squat and deadlift) I'll have some pretty impressive numbers (for me) this time next year. In the grand scheme of things that's not a lot of time.
I just need to remember to make those small jumps. By doing 10x60 on bench gives me an estimated max of 80 (Wendler's calc). I could easily jump to that in my next cycle but I think that would be a mistake. Will have to keep my ego in check.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2012, 05:51:46 pm »
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16/12/12

Injuries- Tight lower back but nothing too worrisome
Fatigue- 1 and a half beers over lunch and a massive amount of food earlier in the day
Bodyweight- 94.5.

Warm-up- Static and dynamic stretching

Deadlift-
Warm-up- 5x40, 5x60, 3x80
Work Sets- 3x90, 3x105, 5x120

Military Press-
Warm-up- 10xbar, 5x25
Work Sets- 3x30, 3x32.5, 10x37.5

Complex Circuit- 3x5@30kg

Bent Row
Hang Clean
Front Squat
Military Press
Back Squat
Good Morning

Decent early evening session. Trained at 6pm when I'm ususally training at 9-9.30ish. Deads felt decent. OHP felt really good. Again, lightish weights but am getting a relly good groove on these things. Slowly building on the circuit. Weights are quite light for all movements with the OHP being the limiter. Goal is probably 40kg with higher reps eventually.
Am into the 531 week next week. Am thinking of trying some more singles after the 1 rep on squat and deadlift to see if I can get anywhere near my Xmas goals of a 120kg squat and 140kg dead. Fingers crossed.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 09:10:11 pm by Coges »
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky