Author Topic: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio on a cut  (Read 3391 times)

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fast does lie

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I'm pretty upset this week.  Earlier last week, I had gotten my BW down to 168 from 181, and still maintained strength.  Ankle got back to 90% late last week so i did some jogging and full court sprints and played 2-3 hours full court bball total.  Due to burning more kcals, I felt it was okay to up my kcal.  Little did I know, that I ended up gaining 8 lbs (probably a lot of water weight because i ate poorly) and losing strength.

So is it possible to be gaining strength while playing 2-3 times of bball per week?  Ultimately though, i must choose between becoming a better bball player or jumping as high as possible, and at 1st, my goal was to use vertical training to make me a better bball player, but i started to fall in love with vertical training.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 05:00:15 pm by UAcompression »
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB

LBSS

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Re: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2013, 04:24:31 pm »
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how do you know you lost strength? how do you know you gained 8 pounds?
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
wednesday: fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

fast does lie

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Re: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2013, 04:35:49 pm »
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how do you know you lost strength? how do you know you gained 8 pounds?

Well about 10 days ago, I was down to 168 lb not totally wet, but not dry either.  I was able to manage 305 x 2, and 310 x 1.  Today, i weighed in at 176, and could not do 295 x 2.  Granted, I am sore from intense cardio on monday, but still, it is kind of demoralizing that your hard work is waved.
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB

LBSS

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Re: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2013, 05:39:07 pm »
0
how do you know you lost strength? how do you know you gained 8 pounds?

Well about 10 days ago, I was down to 168 lb not totally wet, but not dry either.  I was able to manage 305 x 2, and 310 x 1.  Today, i weighed in at 176, and could not do 295 x 2.  Granted, I am sore from intense cardio on monday, but still, it is kind of demoralizing that your hard work is waved.

relax. strength doesn't come or go that quickly. i failed on 330x1 last week after hitting it for rest-pause sets of three two weeks in a row, and hated myself a little for a couple of hours. but it was just a fluke.

no idea about your weight but based on the tiny amount of information you provided my wild guess is that the swing is part water retention, part you underestimating how many kcals you ate and overestimating how many you burned, and part weighing yourself in different states (say, one time in the morning after taking a piss but before eating anything and one time in the evening after eating two meals and not taking a shit).

if you want to compare weight over time, you have to measure in the same "state" each time, and on the same scale (or on scales that you know to be equally calibrated). for example, i weigh myself on the scale in my gym's locker room after working out in the evening. no idea what you mean by "wet" and "dry" but my guess is that you were weighing yourself in different states when you weighed in at 168 and 176.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
wednesday: fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

fast does lie

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Re: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio on a cut
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2013, 05:46:32 pm »
-1
meh i guess.  I guess eating 2 foot long coney's and 2 chicken sandwiches after bball was not a smart choice... and the next day, i ate $12 worth of fast food.  but i didn't over eat that much, probably just 500 kcal above maintenance and i got plenty of protein, 200g each day.  I guess it is the sodium causing water weight to go up.  I mean 8 lb's in 1 week is a nasty gain.
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB

T0ddday

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Re: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio on a cut
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2013, 06:29:56 pm »
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I've gained 8
I mean 8 lb's in 1 week is a nasty gain.

I've gained twice than that in one meal.

LBSS

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Re: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio on a cut
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2013, 10:13:14 pm »
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I've gained 8
I mean 8 lb's in 1 week is a nasty gain.

I've gained twice than that in one meal.

uh.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
wednesday: fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

fast does lie

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Re: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio on a cut
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2013, 01:27:50 pm »
0
Here is my plan, to do some light cardio and try and maintain strength, and cut down to 10%, which will put me at 155-160lb.  I'm wondering at which point could i start plyos.
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB

pelham32

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Re: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio on a cut
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2013, 04:28:27 pm »
+1
Why not just get to 2x bw squat without worrying too much and hoop once or twice a week to stay in shape and to keep adrenalized jumping consistent. Then when your 2 x bw maintain and cut down to what you want... I saw a couple of your vids, you have very short femurs so i imagine getting your squat to 405 at around 180 - 190 then maintain and cut down to 170.. My thoughts, to me it seems more straight forward than to constantly cut down.. Get the back squat up, play ball a couple times a week for fun and jump between games.. Worry less

Side note, You kind of remind me of this guy..   

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kueQUuJKINw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kueQUuJKINw</a>
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 04:30:35 pm by pelham32 »
Goal

windmill consistently/ touch top of the square consistently



weight= 193
height= 6'3 1/2
highest touch= top of the square, which is 11'4

fast does lie

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Re: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio on a cut
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2013, 04:53:02 pm »
0
Why not just get to 2x bw squat without worrying too much and hoop once or twice a week to stay in shape and to keep adrenalized jumping consistent. Then when your 2 x bw maintain and cut down to what you want... I saw a couple of your vids, you have very short femurs so i imagine getting your squat to 405 at around 180 - 190 then maintain and cut down to 170.. My thoughts, to me it seems more straight forward than to constantly cut down.. Get the back squat up, play ball a couple times a week for fun and jump between games.. Worry less

Side note, You kind of remind me of this guy..   

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kueQUuJKINw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kueQUuJKINw</a>

lol @ the vid.

B/c if i get up to 405 squat, i'll be too fat.  I'm at 170ish and 18-20% BF.   My ultimate goal is still bball oriented.  I think for bball if you're to heavy it's bad for mobility, especially when guarding those 5'11 145lb type players.
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB

ChrisM

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Re: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio on a cut
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2013, 05:11:03 pm »
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I think you'd be surprised by what a strict diet and heavy lifting will do for BF %'s. I read somewhere that lifting will burn more calories longer than cardio...plus you get strong. Win-win. The diet is all will-power.
Insert motivational quote here...

pelham32

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Re: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio on a cut
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2013, 07:15:40 pm »
0
Why not just get to 2x bw squat without worrying too much and hoop once or twice a week to stay in shape and to keep adrenalized jumping consistent. Then when your 2 x bw maintain and cut down to what you want... I saw a couple of your vids, you have very short femurs so i imagine getting your squat to 405 at around 180 - 190 then maintain and cut down to 170.. My thoughts, to me it seems more straight forward than to constantly cut down.. Get the back squat up, play ball a couple times a week for fun and jump between games.. Worry less

Side note, You kind of remind me of this guy..   

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kueQUuJKINw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kueQUuJKINw</a>



lol @ the vid.

B/c if i get up to 405 squat, i'll be too fat.  I'm at 170ish and 18-20% BF.   My ultimate goal is still bball oriented.  I think for bball if you're to heavy it's bad for mobility, especially when guarding those 5'11 145lb type players.

Not trying to be gay , but do you have any upper body pics? I mean, from that body fat percentage  it seems your weight should be at 145lbs.. If that's the case then yeah cut, but I dnt think you are up there judging by your vids... Seems to me 170 will be your optimal weight where you can be plenty strong and explosive without weighing too much

But if 170 has you truly  at 20% bf, then yeah I think that's too high, I always liked Martin berkhans approach of lean gains... Slow strength gains but fat comes off while muscle is maintained.. I just don't think you are at 20% bf
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 07:20:52 pm by pelham32 »
Goal

windmill consistently/ touch top of the square consistently



weight= 193
height= 6'3 1/2
highest touch= top of the square, which is 11'4

pelham32

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Re: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio on a cut
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2013, 07:23:52 pm »
0
I think you'd be surprised by what a strict diet and heavy lifting will do for BF %'s. I read somewhere that lifting will burn more calories longer than cardio...plus you get strong. Win-win. The diet is all will-power.

I don't think that is necessarily true, but the amount of calories it takes to build muscle will be more. so on a maintenance low fat diet, your body will use more body fat to make up for the energy demands to build muscle... I could be wrong though
Goal

windmill consistently/ touch top of the square consistently



weight= 193
height= 6'3 1/2
highest touch= top of the square, which is 11'4

fast does lie

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Re: gaining/maintaining strength in combo with intense cardio on a cut
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2013, 10:35:54 am »
0
Why not just get to 2x bw squat without worrying too much and hoop once or twice a week to stay in shape and to keep adrenalized jumping consistent. Then when your 2 x bw maintain and cut down to what you want... I saw a couple of your vids, you have very short femurs so i imagine getting your squat to 405 at around 180 - 190 then maintain and cut down to 170.. My thoughts, to me it seems more straight forward than to constantly cut down.. Get the back squat up, play ball a couple times a week for fun and jump between games.. Worry less

Side note, You kind of remind me of this guy..   

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kueQUuJKINw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kueQUuJKINw</a>



lol @ the vid.

B/c if i get up to 405 squat, i'll be too fat.  I'm at 170ish and 18-20% BF.   My ultimate goal is still bball oriented.  I think for bball if you're to heavy it's bad for mobility, especially when guarding those 5'11 145lb type players.

Not trying to be gay , but do you have any upper body pics? I mean, from that body fat percentage  it seems your weight should be at 145lbs.. If that's the case then yeah cut, but I dnt think you are up there judging by your vids... Seems to me 170 will be your optimal weight where you can be plenty strong and explosive without weighing too much

But if 170 has you truly  at 20% bf, then yeah I think that's too high, I always liked Martin berkhans approach of lean gains... Slow strength gains but fat comes off while muscle is maintained.. I just don't think you are at 20% bf

I mean, I was pretty fat before, so I may be overestimating it.  Kind of like how entropy is below 10% yet he has a bit of extra fat/skin around the midsection.  But I am the type that easily gains weight and fat.  I can see veins in my arms but there is a coating of fat around my core. 
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB