Author Topic: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's  (Read 2309 times)

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Merrick

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Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« on: October 05, 2015, 10:48:06 pm »
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Hey guys,

Was wondering if anyone has had experience or read from any knowledgeable people about these 2 exercises for performance (specifically for single leg jumping)?

First of all, what exactly is the difference?  I realize in the reverse hyper, your hamstrings have to be strong not to collapse and keep the stiff leg, while in the regular hyper, your legs are fixed in a straight/stiff position...

What happens if your hams are too weak on the reg hyper?  It can't collapse so does it compensate some other way?

Any other differences between the 2?  I don't have access to reverse hyper (which I know is heavily advocated by many coaches), but i have access to a regular hyper bench.  I never see anyone advocate regular hypers.


edit:  Also, any point in doing exercises like these unilaterally?  I know Lance wrote about single leg reverse hypers, but I can't seem to think of any reason why they need to be done unilaterally. 
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 10:56:27 pm by Merrick »

LBSS

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2015, 11:22:54 pm »
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hyper is your feet are braced and you're moving your upper body up and down. reverse hyper is your upper body is braced and you're moving your legs up and down.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

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Merrick

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2015, 11:38:20 pm »
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hyper is your feet are braced and you're moving your upper body up and down. reverse hyper is your upper body is braced and you're moving your legs up and down.

Yes I know... But both movements are hip extensions with the legs straight.  I was wondering if there was a different training effect from each since reverse hypers are so promoted while regular hypers not as much

vag

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2015, 03:39:35 am »
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Totally different thing.
Normal ones, main muscle worked is lower back ( erector spinae ).
Reverse ones, main muscle worked is butt ( gluteus maximus ).
Hamstrings are worked in both as 'secondary' muscle.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BWHyperextensionHead.html
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/BWReverseHyperextension.html
woot

Merrick

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2015, 03:53:50 am »
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That site is just showing the mainstream way of using it...

A proper hyper is done with glute/ham hip extension, where you keep spine neutral and extend glutes into the pad...  Bret contreras has a video of it on youtube too..


vag

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2015, 04:16:36 am »
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I disagree with how exrx demonstrates a few exercises too, but i mostly like it for the working muscles analysis, target, synergists and stabilizers. Plus the awesome muscle-exercise mapping it has, for a big list of exercises too.
I think that however you do them, they will always primarily hit the lower back. I see bret doesn't even call them hyperextensions in his most of his video titles, but back extensions.
On the other hand, i remember adarqui using weighted 45 degree hypers for ME jumping stim, so maybe there is something i am missing here?
woot

LBSS

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2015, 10:15:08 am »
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adarq's were ISOs with a focus on squeezing the glutes maximally.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

Merrick

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2015, 01:41:14 pm »
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Yes on adarqs iso stim.

Vag, maybe you should try to exercise once.  If you do it right, it's definitely glutes and hams primary and you HARDLY feel the low back working at all.

So i guess, no one has an opinion on whether reverse hypers and reg hypers (done glute dominantly) has any training differences? 

adarqui

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2015, 02:35:26 pm »
+1
Yes on adarqs iso stim.

Vag, maybe you should try to exercise once.  If you do it right, it's definitely glutes and hams primary and you HARDLY feel the low back working at all.

So i guess, no one has an opinion on whether reverse hypers and reg hypers (done glute dominantly) has any training differences?

Hey Merrick,

IMHO, reg-hypers (done glute dom) have a few differences over rev-hypers:
- you have a greater chance for hypertrophy/strength gains using reg-hypers. This is due to the time under tension of the movement. You're going to get hypertrophy of the erector spinae, hamstrings, glutes.
- the "closed chain" movement of a reg-hyper has some much needed specificity to sport
- you can play with different tempos.. while rev hyper is pretty much extend and attempt to control down, but it becomes swing-like
- you can progressively overload reg-hypers alot easier than rev hypers
- you'll incorporate more calf/hamstring/erector spinae to extend, regardless of trying to be glute dominant

Rev hypers have an added "chiropractic" benefit; traction. It can really help "decompress" the spine. I'm no chiro, but i've felt it work and I know sooo many people swear by it, including Louie himself. You can also train hip ext without loading the spine.

Rev hypers are probably better at teaching the glutes to fire and extend the hip. So this would be your best bet when trying to focus on that specific motor pattern.

hope that helps,

pC!

Merrick

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2015, 02:53:46 pm »
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Yes on adarqs iso stim.

Vag, maybe you should try to exercise once.  If you do it right, it's definitely glutes and hams primary and you HARDLY feel the low back working at all.

So i guess, no one has an opinion on whether reverse hypers and reg hypers (done glute dominantly) has any training differences?

Hey Merrick,

IMHO, reg-hypers (done glute dom) have a few differences over rev-hypers:
- you have a greater chance for hypertrophy/strength gains using reg-hypers. This is due to the time under tension of the movement. You're going to get hypertrophy of the erector spinae, hamstrings, glutes.
- the "closed chain" movement of a reg-hyper has some much needed specificity to sport
- you can play with different tempos.. while rev hyper is pretty much extend and attempt to control down, but it becomes swing-like
- you can progressively overload reg-hypers alot easier than rev hypers
- you'll incorporate more calf/hamstring/erector spinae to extend, regardless of trying to be glute dominant

Rev hypers have an added "chiropractic" benefit; traction. It can really help "decompress" the spine. I'm no chiro, but i've felt it work and I know sooo many people swear by it, including Louie himself. You can also train hip ext without loading the spine.

Rev hypers are probably better at teaching the glutes to fire and extend the hip. So this would be your best bet when trying to focus on that specific motor pattern.

hope that helps,

pC!


Thanks for the reply adarq!

Yeah I would love to have access to a rev hyper but I do love using the reg hyper as well.

Would you say it's no big deal to use the reg hyper over the reV hyper for single leg jumping?  I mean, the training effect differences can't be THAT big right (even in terms of teaching the glutes to extend the hips)?

Also, do you see any benefit in doing such things unilaterally?  Or is there no difference as the muscles being trained is worked the same way and just do SL bounds/jumps for unilateral specificity?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 02:55:25 pm by Merrick »

adarqui

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2015, 03:09:26 pm »
+2
Yes on adarqs iso stim.

Vag, maybe you should try to exercise once.  If you do it right, it's definitely glutes and hams primary and you HARDLY feel the low back working at all.

So i guess, no one has an opinion on whether reverse hypers and reg hypers (done glute dominantly) has any training differences?

Hey Merrick,

IMHO, reg-hypers (done glute dom) have a few differences over rev-hypers:
- you have a greater chance for hypertrophy/strength gains using reg-hypers. This is due to the time under tension of the movement. You're going to get hypertrophy of the erector spinae, hamstrings, glutes.
- the "closed chain" movement of a reg-hyper has some much needed specificity to sport
- you can play with different tempos.. while rev hyper is pretty much extend and attempt to control down, but it becomes swing-like
- you can progressively overload reg-hypers alot easier than rev hypers
- you'll incorporate more calf/hamstring/erector spinae to extend, regardless of trying to be glute dominant

Rev hypers have an added "chiropractic" benefit; traction. It can really help "decompress" the spine. I'm no chiro, but i've felt it work and I know sooo many people swear by it, including Louie himself. You can also train hip ext without loading the spine.

Rev hypers are probably better at teaching the glutes to fire and extend the hip. So this would be your best bet when trying to focus on that specific motor pattern.

hope that helps,

pC!


Thanks for the reply adarq!

Yeah I would love to have access to a rev hyper but I do love using the reg hyper as well.

Would you say it's no big deal to use the reg hyper over the reV hyper for single leg jumping?  I mean, the training effect differences can't be THAT big right (even in terms of teaching the glutes to extend the hips)?

ya should be fine. regardless, the effectiveness of reg-hyper vs rev-hyper for single leg jumping would be debatable anyway. You're not going to be using it as some sort of "primary training method" I imagine; it's just assistance. They both are going to get the glutes firing under load. You can always train specific motor patterns using no load at all, ie, lying down prone and extending the hip(s) with your glute(s) (single or double leg). Those types of activation exercises are very effective. So, you could get a bit of rev-hyper style hip extension via activation exercises, and hypertrophy/strength gains from the reg-hyper (and other things like squatting/lunging).

Quote
Also, do you see any benefit in doing such things unilaterally?  Or is there no difference as the muscles being trained is worked the same way and just do SL bounds/jumps for unilateral specificity?

ya definitely.. i've always loved unilateral hypers, especially when it comes to sprinting/single leg jumping. I used to prescribe them/do them myself. Biggest thing to remember here though is, overloading it is pointless if your form breaks down, ie, your hips start excessively rotating, you start compensating etc. Form break down is alot easier since you're locked into the hyper and only using one leg. It's ok for the working leg to position itself a bit more narrow. I rarely ever added any load to unilateral hypers. Instead, focusing on proper extension, tempo, and reps.

Some of the same muscles are being worked, but not under the same kind of tension/load. SL bounding/jumps experience much higher loads and also have a huge contribution from the quadriceps. So they complement each other.

pC!

Merrick

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2015, 03:25:50 pm »
+1
AHHH I Seee!

Unilateral hyper's can kinda teach you to extend the glutes without allowing pelvic positioning to rotate and stuff (basically what needs to be trained for single leg jumping/ sprinting)

I tried SL hypers under load and I couldn't get my glutes firing as well as bilateral so that's why I asked.  Now I know why LOL.  I definitely remmeber my pelvis rotating, etc...  Don't know why I didn't figure that out on the spot but whatever... 

But yeah, it's not like I'm saying all imma do is hypers lol.  Just one of the exercises in my toolbox.  I just love them because they seem to have great transfer to SL bounds

Thanks for shedding light on the subject adarq

Raptor

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2015, 06:31:53 pm »
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I wonder how single leg hip thrusts would work

Merrick

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2015, 02:07:21 am »
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Adarq,

One last question on the hyper...

Does feet positioning matter?  I get much easier glute activation when my toes are pointing out.  Much harder to get that glute extension with feet pointing straight up and down, but it's obviously more specific to sl jumping/sprinting...  Is this difficulty because of psoas tightness?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 03:09:10 am by Merrick »

Dreyth

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Re: Hyper's and Reverse Hyper's
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2015, 09:44:01 am »
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I wonder how single leg hip thrusts would work

I used to do these for glute activation before squatting. Worked great! I did them weightless though.
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