Author Topic: Weight Vested Plyo's  (Read 2428 times)

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Merrick

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Weight Vested Plyo's
« on: August 12, 2015, 02:49:06 pm »
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Hey Guys,

I want to hear your opinions on something that doesn't make too much sense to me...

Using a weight vest seems to be accepted as a beneficial way to train for a higher vertical jump, but take a look at this scenario:

Single leg bounds are great for single leg jumpers... 

A weight vest does not allow you to jump as high on each bound, although power output may be equal because a lower height with more weight (vest on) is still similar to a higher height with less weight (no vest).  If this leads to a lower height (with vest), than on the landings where a lot of the magic happens, you are absorbing a higher weight but from a lower drop height (essentially canceling each other out), which will be pretty much the same landing force of a lower weight (no vest) but from a higher drop height?

This to me seems like they are the exact same thing except that the weight vest can negatively affect movement efficiency so this 1 negative aspect equates to NOT using a weight vest as superior?

The only way I see using a weight vest as being useful is for immediate potentiation/STIM effects during a peaking phase.  Doing 1 set of bounds with the vest on, and taking advantage of the CNS stim on the next set with the vest OFF (contrast sets).


What prompted me to wonder even more obsessively about this is that if my example of higher/lower drops higher/lower weight higher/lower jumps are all essentially the same, it didn't make sense that I have had more knee pain when I would go on blocks using a weight vest.  If my earlier scenario is true, this increased knee pain can be explained by the vest decreasing movement efficiency, thus me performing the bounds more dangerously.


Another example would basically be if you master 18" depth jumps, would it be the same to increase the box height as staying on 18" but add weight?

Shit load of overthinking but I want to be as efficient as possible so what does everyone think?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 02:54:44 pm by Merrick »

LBSS

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Re: Weight Vested Plyo's
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2015, 03:30:42 pm »
+1
i haven't read anything about weighted vests in a while, but IIRC they're most useful for stim if you just wear them around all day. contraindicated for plyos and bounds and stuff because you're already overloading the joints, the vest is superfluous for training effect and, as you said, can worsen movement efficiency.

the vest might be causing you more pain just by making you heavier.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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Merrick

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Re: Weight Vested Plyo's
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2015, 03:42:34 pm »
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i haven't read anything about weighted vests in a while, but IIRC they're most useful for stim if you just wear them around all day. contraindicated for plyos and bounds and stuff because you're already overloading the joints, the vest is superfluous for training effect and, as you said, can worsen movement efficiency.

the vest might be causing you more pain just by making you heavier.

Makes sense, thanks...

Gonna ditch my vest unless I do contrast sets during peaking blocks from now


Edit:

I'm not sure if it caused me pain just by making me heavier because I only wear them during the single leg bounding sessions and as I (assuming my analysis is correct) have shown, the landing forces are the exact same.  So, I would think it's the negative movement efficiency causing the pain since I have noticed some more torso leaning during my bounds with the vest on
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 03:45:38 pm by Merrick »

maxent

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Re: Weight Vested Plyo's
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2015, 12:21:46 am »
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I dont think using weight vest for potentiating unweighted max effort jumps is a good idea. IM pretty sure i've read that it's a sure fire way to blow out tendons.

This is what i foudn on wikipedia when i googled it just now
Quote
Practicing weighted movements at high speeds also causes the nervous system to fire at larger intensities. If an individual loses the weight without being trained to adapt to the transition, he may overexert himself without checking at the end of the movement and overextend a tendon. This is more of a risk when people fully extend their limbs in such movements and do not come to a controlled stop at the end, limiting muscle flexion. Generally, the muscle being extended is more at risk, not one held statically. For example, the quadriceps muscle could overexert in a snap kick trained with ankle weights, but in a rising kick, it is the hip flexor muscle more likely to overextend. In either case, the hamstring and associated ligaments would be at risk for a tear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighted_clothing
Making a new strength setpoint of 75/100/150 on OHP/BP/BS.

Merrick

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Re: Weight Vested Plyo's
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2015, 12:57:57 am »
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I dont think using weight vest for potentiating unweighted max effort jumps is a good idea. IM pretty sure i've read that it's a sure fire way to blow out tendons.

This is what i foudn on wikipedia when i googled it just now
Quote
Practicing weighted movements at high speeds also causes the nervous system to fire at larger intensities. If an individual loses the weight without being trained to adapt to the transition, he may overexert himself without checking at the end of the movement and overextend a tendon. This is more of a risk when people fully extend their limbs in such movements and do not come to a controlled stop at the end, limiting muscle flexion. Generally, the muscle being extended is more at risk, not one held statically. For example, the quadriceps muscle could overexert in a snap kick trained with ankle weights, but in a rising kick, it is the hip flexor muscle more likely to overextend. In either case, the hamstring and associated ligaments would be at risk for a tear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighted_clothing

IDK, admittedly I do not have much experience with it, but if Kelly B and Lance has used loaded plyo sets to potentiate unloaded sets with their athletes and recommends it, I'm sure it's not a "sure fire way" to blow out your tendons...

Raptor

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Re: Weight Vested Plyo's
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2015, 03:56:05 am »
+1
Doing weighed vest plyos increases the GCT (ground contact time). What that means is the muscle load is increased and the "tendon contribution" decreases (in other words, the movement becomes more "muscled up" and less "springy" or "reactive"). Even more, there's a tendency to "break" more (at the hip, knee or ankle).

One "advantage" would be to see where you "break" but then it's a matter of understanding if the breaking is occuring due to lack of strength or too much dominance (for example, if breaking at the knee is a matter of lack of quad strength (knee collapses and goes forward) or too much quad strength relative to the posterior chain, so the quads are preferentially recruited when the load is heavier and therefore, for the quads to express their "strength", the CNS "wants" to move the knee forward to get quad range of motion). It's tricky to figure out what the case is (well, not really, look at your squat numbers to figure that out).

I used to do the other way around for my reactivity - donkey ankle bounces. I would support my chest on something (usually a trash can) and take away a lot of my upperbody weight. Then I would jump up and down while being UNLOADED. That would allow me to be VERY reactive since I'm weighing like half my bodyweight.

Looks funny but is efficient:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwu5U3gSCDU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwu5U3gSCDU</a>

LBSS

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Re: Weight Vested Plyo's
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2015, 10:13:43 am »
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^^^kelly baggett has been an advocate for those in the past.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag