Author Topic: Cutting down to where?  (Read 8214 times)

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Raptor

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Cutting down to where?
« on: December 20, 2011, 02:21:21 am »
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OK, I'll soon begin my journey into cutting down weight (fat) and my target is to get to about ~75 kg (from my current 84). My squat is 135x5 or 300 lbs x 5.

My question is - going with my bodyweight down and down - I'll be going to lose strength so where is the point where I should kind of "stop" losing weight as the alarm signal in terms of squatting? My aim is 130x5 in the squat - dropping below that and I have a problem.

130x5 gives a projected 146 1RM, and if I get to 75 kg while maintaining a 130x5 squat then I'd have a 1.94 squat ratio vs my current 1.82.

Thanks!

LanceSTS

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2011, 03:39:14 am »
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  First thing is, dont go into it with the mindset that you are GOING to lose strength, do everything in your power to program as smart as you can and try to get STRONGER as you lean out.  I cant tell you how many times ive seen this play out and guys end up stronger and leaner just because they started to eat better, it carried over to their training, and they actually made strength gains as the leaned out.   

  Now, when you get lean enough that you are starting to give up muscle tissue, its time to stop, but you will definitely know when that time comes, and already be very lean before you need to worry about it.  So much of the info on athletes going down from 10 percent to 4 percent gets taken out of context as "everyone who cuts fat will lose strength", when thats just not true.  You could easily lose 15 lbs of fat or so and still continue to get stronger for a short period of time at this point in your training.  Then you can re evaluate where you are and what you want to do from that point on. 


  One more thing, dont drag this out.  Get it over with and then move on.  You can use intermittent fasting, look at www.leangains.com, or many different strategies, but get it over with and move on with your training.  Doing it slowly is similar to cutting off a dogs tail a little bit at a time so it doesnt hurt so bad.  You can progress for a while cutting fat, but you drag it out long enough and progress will start to halt.
Relax.

Raptor

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2011, 05:13:17 am »
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Well I was thinking, in terms of training, to go with what chezkenny is currently doing: squat + bench + deadlift + pullups/chinups daily, going with 1x5 one day and 9x3 the next two days for speed (with 3 reps with 60, 70 and 80% of 1RM - repeat 3 times)

But in order to push my strength while cutting, I'd actually reduce my squat weight to 130 kg for my work set and try to get as many reps as possible with that weight. 135 feels kind of heavy and the speed is not that great so 130 should give me speed and better control of the weight, plus I can probably do about 6 reps with 130 right now and I can keep on pushing the reps to target 8 if possible. If I can get 8 I'll increase the weight.

So that's the plan: 1xF, 9x3, 9x3, 1xF, 9x3, 9x3 and so on.

LBSS

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2011, 10:11:09 am »
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plus with leangains, you can eat lots of cheesecake.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

LanceSTS

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2011, 03:56:32 pm »
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Well I was thinking, in terms of training, to go with what chezkenny is currently doing: squat + bench + deadlift + pullups/chinups daily, going with 1x5 one day and 9x3 the next two days for speed (with 3 reps with 60, 70 and 80% of 1RM - repeat 3 times)

But in order to push my strength while cutting, I'd actually reduce my squat weight to 130 kg for my work set and try to get as many reps as possible with that weight. 135 feels kind of heavy and the speed is not that great so 130 should give me speed and better control of the weight, plus I can probably do about 6 reps with 130 right now and I can keep on pushing the reps to target 8 if possible. If I can get 8 I'll increase the weight.

So that's the plan: 1xF, 9x3, 9x3, 1xF, 9x3, 9x3 and so on.


  why not just do it like he does?  The issue youre going to run into with the higher reps is thats the main thing that will be affected by cutting calories to begin with, so youll definitely lose that battle.  If you keep it to a 1-5 rep max, you wont deplete glycogen the same way, and when you do, you wont be as screwed as you would doing a high rep set.  Keep strength up with low explosive reps, if youre going to go high frequency thats the bottom line anyway.
Relax.

LanceSTS

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2011, 04:47:45 pm »
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  also raptor, the percent thing wont work, youll fry your cns in a hurry if youre going to try the daily training.  You HAVE to learn to gauge speed/effort, and know when to stop on the speed days or you will end up thinking the daily training is the worst thing ever.  What hes doing is Verks version of the high freq/stim, but it is almost exactly like CTs hp mass/broz , with speed days instead of "neural charge" days.   The speed days serve the same purpose, they are based on the idea that recovery can be accelerated with extra explosive training, its not a day to grind at all or your next heavy day will be trash.

  When you do that stuff its day to day differences in load, you cant have a pre determined number you have to get to or its not going to work.  Its auto regulatory training, and without a tendo unit to gauge a drop in bar speed, youre really going to have to be careful and know when to pull the plug on your speed days. 
Relax.

Raptor

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2011, 05:38:43 pm »
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Yeah definitely ^^^

I was also thinking of ditching the deadlift in the speed days and go with power cleans and power snatches. So instead of squat-bench-deadlift I'll go with power clean/power snatch - squat - bench.

LanceSTS

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2011, 05:46:56 pm »
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Yeah definitely ^^^

I was also thinking of ditching the deadlift in the speed days and go with power cleans and power snatches. So instead of squat-bench-deadlift I'll go with power clean/power snatch - squat - bench.

  I think thats a great idea, especially since youre training for explosive strength.
Relax.

swans05

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2011, 07:35:13 pm »
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In know this is Lances thread but here are my thoughts:

Get it done quickly as he suggested - i lost 7.5kgs in 28 days with a concentrated approach (79 - 72) with minimal strength loss...it's not like you can't gain it back in a week or 2 when you're done

Also as suggested, you're better off keeping intensity high (load) then decreasing it and increasing volume (sets/reps) so maybe work up to 130 x 3 and aim to beat that each week, as little increases as needed (1kg increase per week for 5 weeks = 5kgs)...sets of 8 will get you stronger at sets of 8 but necessarily at sets of 3 (the reason i'm not a fan of projected maxes) but we all know it's max strength that is best for vert

I'm not sure of your full training plan but it's near impossible to train for performance and lose a lot of wt quickly in my opinion...as it stands anyway your training for performance in the sense of body comp, you'd just use different methods to do it

My 28 day schedule looked like this:

mon - wts + metabolic zones
tue - bodyweight circuits + steady state cardio in am / intervals in pm
wed - wts + metabolic zones
thu - bodyweight circuits + steady state cardio in am / intervals in pm
fri - wts + metabolic zones
sat - bodyweight circuits + steady state cardio in am / intervals in pm
sun - off

Diet
Wt Days - calories at 10 x bodyweight (50g carbs - 30 starch / 20 fruit/veg)
Circuit / Cardio Days = 9 x bodyweight (30g carbs fruit / veg)
Off Day - 8 x bodyweight (protein / fat only)

Just my thoughts on the matter

Raptor

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2011, 08:46:19 pm »
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Thanks for your effort but frankly, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Raptor

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2011, 10:28:26 am »
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By the way - does it make sense at my current strength level and experience to go with Smolov or Smolov JR before beginning my cut down phase?

Raptor

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2011, 01:03:38 pm »
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Just inputed 150 as my 1RM here: http://www.joeskopec.com/smolov.html

For that, I'm supposed to do Friday 7x5x120 and then THE NEXT DAY 10x3x128 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :ninja:

And then the next week 7x5x130 AND THEN THE NEXT DAY 10x3x138 ?!?!?!?!?!

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? After 7x5x130 they expect me to do be able to do 10x3x138 the next fucking day? WTF is wrong with these people?

Even with the 1RM set to 140 that's still a lot of "impossible" work there. And then they say "Take a 3 week break from squat work, test your NEW RM, enter it in the box below and continue with the program". 3 week break from squat work? WTF :ninja:
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 01:06:14 pm by Raptor »

LanceSTS

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2011, 01:52:43 pm »
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By the way - does it make sense at my current strength level and experience to go with Smolov or Smolov JR before beginning my cut down phase?


no, dont get adhd right now you had a good plan, just keep it as you had it.  This new high frequency plan is already going to be a change up for you anyway.

 Im gone to the ranch for Christmas, Ill be without a computer till sunday most likely but will check back then. Peace and merry Christmas everybody.
Relax.

LBSS

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2011, 05:36:19 pm »
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Just inputed 150 as my 1RM here: http://www.joeskopec.com/smolov.html

For that, I'm supposed to do Friday 7x5x120 and then THE NEXT DAY 10x3x128 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :ninja:

And then the next week 7x5x130 AND THEN THE NEXT DAY 10x3x138 ?!?!?!?!?!

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? After 7x5x130 they expect me to do be able to do 10x3x138 the next fucking day? WTF is wrong with these people?

Even with the 1RM set to 140 that's still a lot of "impossible" work there. And then they say "Take a 3 week break from squat work, test your NEW RM, enter it in the box below and continue with the program". 3 week break from squat work? WTF :ninja:

why are you even talking about smolov in a cutting thread?
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

Raptor

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Re: Cutting down to where?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2011, 06:19:26 pm »
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Well because I feel like the time for cutting hasn't come yet. I'm just gathering info/preparing for that, but I'd like to continue to increase my squat. And the plan was after my linear progression fails to do Smolov and then cut, but Smolov looks impossible.