Author Topic: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump  (Read 3518 times)

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LBSS

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2016, 08:54:49 am »
+1
if you ever watched those videos of ben johnson quarter squatting 500+, you know charlie francis believed this, too.

the idea of quarter squatting makes my knees cry, though.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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arnoud

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2016, 09:15:03 am »
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Agreed, though I wonder if a trap bar would have the same effects. My personal reason for posting it was I have a love/hate relationship with full squats. I have seen athletes with training vids who have 40 plus verts with no full squat used, so maybe I have to let the idea go that full squats are absolutely necessary. Quarter squats make my back and knee cringe too...

arnoud

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2016, 09:17:37 am »
+1
And I posted it because I remember a very intense discussion between a certain honeybadger and mr rippetoe...

Dreyth

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2016, 09:31:01 am »
0
I definitely want to add quarter squats to a peaking phase some day.
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vag

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2016, 11:57:05 am »
+1
T0ddday, what's your view on this? Especially for bodies not optimal for deep squatting ( long legs , small torso )? My 90' squat ( half , quarter, whatever you wanna call it ) is and always has been something like 40-50% stronger than full squat, while it feels 100 times better ( no knee/back stress at all ).
woot

adarqui

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2016, 03:57:03 am »
+4
TLDR: I personally found half squats safer & more effective than deep squats. If however, quarter squats were as safe yet more effective than half squats, I would have used quarter squats. :)



when I gave up deep squatting (below parallel but not ATG) in favor of half squatting, alot of the knee/hip pain (aches or even injuries) basically disappeared. I then went on to build my peak vert using high frequency (and at times high volume) half squatting (over the course of the next few years)... Would I have been able to do the same volume/frequency while deep squatting? Nope, my knees/hips would get too achey. So, half squatting is something that definitely worked for me. Doesn't necessarily mean it would work as well for someone else. I wasn't discouraged when the vast majority of people would make fun of my squatting; because I saw gains -> it was effective. I was more saddened out how the performance community has brainwashed everyone. We talk alot of politics on here lately.... speaking about deep squatting like it's the only true way to squat reminds me of people who take illogical yet extreme views on a subject.

The conclusion to all of this, which I came to long ago, is that once an exercise becomes biblical, it becomes dangerous. A foundational exercise should be utilized because it's SAFE AND EFFECTIVE, and can be progressively overloaded. An exercise is just a small tool in the greater scheme of things. So if one squats deep for performance, simply because "that's how real men do it", they are selling themselves very short IMHO. They are subliminally convincing themselves that this one exercise matters more than how it's integrated on a daily/weekly bases. That can be a good thing, I mean hey you are confident in the means to which you are trying to achieve performance. However, you may be missing out on something potentially more effective. Squatting deep or half is one variable in this massive, ever changing equation. To me, how you juggle volume, intensity, frequency, nutrition, sleep, rest, and sport specific skills (jumping) is far more important.

In the end, you need a few tools that will be able to safely stimulate your cns through progressive overload, target those muscle groups you utilize in competition, improve strength in those smaller yet important/postural/protective muscle groups, eat good, sleep good, push yourself hard most every (but not all) session(s), consistently do this month after month, avoid injuries at all costs in the weightroom and in non-competition, and really analyze what works and what doesn't.

As for half squatting.. I've probably half squatting more than most people on any internet forum, lmao. I can tell you from experience that my hamstring, glutes, and quads get wrecked. It's definitely adds more risk to your spine than with deep squatting, but reduces risk on your knees/hips.

Squatting deep or half with sub-optimal form is equally bad.

So, after that preachy-ish post, do I think quarters could result in better gains for sprinting/jumping? Yes for sure, but, it comes with even more risk than half squats. I've personally utilized them and just never enjoyed utilizing them consistently, they just felt too risky. I worry about my back too much, so to me they are more of an inhibitive exercises than stimulative exercises.. One thing I did utilize to a greater extend was simply "unracking".. so it's more of a quarter squat single but with even less rom and it's mostly concentric, so a 3.5/4th squat concentric. Concentrically lifting heavy weight off pins could potentially be beneficial because of the starting strength involved. The lack of eccentric with such heavy weight probably protects your back a ton. Either way, it's probably safer than quarters but still risky.

To add to the last few sentences above.. quarter squats off pins seem safer than normal quarter squats. You would probably have to use a little bit less weight too, which is a good thing.

There's lots of variations to these lifts that we don't see people experimenting with.. I've always been into pin variations:
- starting off pins
- pausing on pins
- using pins to control depth
- high volume variations on pins seem to feel great compared to high volume variations in "free form"


dno just some thoughts.

peACE!!

maxent

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2016, 05:06:59 am »
0
lmao is it that time again? can someone remind me when we are talking about lowbar vs highbar next week, i wanna make sure to give my 2c there
Making a new strength setpoint of 75/100/150 on OHP/BP/BS.

Dreyth

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2016, 09:40:52 am »
0
adarqui, did you find that your half squat progressed faster than your deep squats ever do?

i mean after your initial burst of CNS gains in the half squat, of course.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 09:42:40 am by Dreyth »
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adarqui

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2016, 10:35:17 pm »
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adarqui, did you find that your half squat progressed faster than your deep squats ever do?

i mean after your initial burst of CNS gains in the half squat, of course.

tbh, not really. I mean, once you get passed those newbie gains, it's pretty similar to the struggle you'd face with deep squatting. The only way it would be easier is if you cheat depth, which is probably easier to do when half squatting compared to deep squatting. But that'd be cheating.

so nah, I think it's similar.. it's just that you are moving more weight every session when half squatting.

pc!

Raptor

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2016, 03:14:12 am »
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In a way, it might be the other way around, since you use more weight - there's a bigger chance that one of the smaller muscles gets overwhelmed and messes up your form/compromises stability.

ChrisM

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2016, 04:57:34 am »
+1
Ive used quarter/halves duringg peaking for a few weeks with, what i can tell, decent results. Come to think of it...I havent used them in almost a year. I'll program some in after this block!
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adarqui

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2016, 04:54:28 pm »
0
In a way, it might be the other way around, since you use more weight - there's a bigger chance that one of the smaller muscles gets overwhelmed and messes up your form/compromises stability.

ya for sure that's always a possibility.. but, you're in a stronger "anatomical position" if form is maintained properly.

all variations are dangerous if form is compromised. i'd definitely say the variations (half/quarter) with the most load on your back, are the most dangerous if performed with bad form. spine injury > knee injury.



Ive used quarter/halves duringg peaking for a few weeks with, what i can tell, decent results. Come to think of it...I havent used them in almost a year. I'll program some in after this block!

nice!!

Dreyth

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2016, 10:51:58 am »
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In a way, it might be the other way around, since you use more weight - there's a bigger chance that one of the smaller muscles gets overwhelmed and messes up your form/compromises stability.

My train of thought was more weight = quicker gains, like in deadlifting. Or compare benching to shoulder pressing.
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Raptor

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Re: quarter squats better and more specific for vertical jump
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2016, 01:46:30 pm »
0
In a way, it might be the other way around, since you use more weight - there's a bigger chance that one of the smaller muscles gets overwhelmed and messes up your form/compromises stability.

My train of thought was more weight = quicker gains, like in deadlifting. Or compare benching to shoulder pressing.

Well, it's hard to pinpoint the ratio of weight/gains, since there are other parameters at work. Maybe you don't hit the same depth all the time, maybe you're limited by this or that muscle that adapts over time when your protagonists don't etc. Who knows? My brain is too destroyed to think about it.