Author Topic: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )  (Read 8933 times)

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vag

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« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 09:20:18 am by vag »
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vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 11:55:00 am »
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Crosslinked from the pics&vids thread :

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh82VnSzpT0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh82VnSzpT0</a>

Critique/corrections please?
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LanceSTS

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 01:59:55 pm »
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  First off Im sorry for taking so long to respond to your rdl video Vag, Ive been moving into a new house in the same complex with my gym and havent had much time at all. 

 The way we teach the rdl is to start with glutes fired forward, weight on heels, and bar swept into the hip crease using the lats.  You need to actively PULL the weight into you while youre tensing the glutes.  bend ONLY at the knees, 3 inches, while keeping the glutes forward, and the weight on the heels.  If you watch Pendlay clean and snatch progressions, this is position 1 in my blog.  This bend (3 inches) will remain constant throughout the entire exercise.  When you reach full hip extension, this is where you finish.

 To start the movement, sweeping the bar into your thighs with the lats as you push the hips to the rear, you will descend as far back with your hips as your flexibility allows.  DONT think about the barbell going DOWN, simply sweep it in against you, and think of the hips going back.  With the starting position described, you will not bend at the knee any more than is already pre set.  This is one of the most important things and easiest ways of not turning the exercise into something its not supposed to be.

 To finish you simply drive your hips into the bar, while continuing to sweep the weight into you with the lats.  You will finish in the exact position you started, with the knees slightly bent. 

There are other ways to do it, but this method has proven very useful and really allows a glute driven rdl while taking the issues of knee extension out entirely that typically happen when starting to learn the movement.  Remember that the bar is not the focus on the way down, its merely there and "ignore" the depth it reaches.  Focus is entirely on hips moving back, then hips moving forward.
Relax.

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 02:37:14 pm »
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  First off Im sorry for taking so long to respond to your rdl video Vag, Ive been moving into a new house in the same complex with my gym and havent had much time at all. 


No prob , i saw you were away from the whole forum, thanks for replying!

So , if i get it right, my main flaws would be that:
-I am not sweeping the bar , it goes a bit away from my body. Pulling with lats and keeping it on heels fixes that.
-I am lowering the bar, not pushing my hips back. I need to push hips as back as i can maintaining neutral spine and steady knees bend.

How is my spine? Is it neutral? If not, am i arching or rounding? My upper back natural posture is kyphotic btw, i am mostly referring to lower back during the lift.
Keep in mind that the video is a maximal lift, most i have ever done is 7x253 and this day i did 3x5@253 , PRish performance.
I will try to apply all cues tomorrow, will go lighter.
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LanceSTS

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 03:55:36 pm »
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  First off Im sorry for taking so long to respond to your rdl video Vag, Ive been moving into a new house in the same complex with my gym and havent had much time at all. 


No prob , i saw you were away from the whole forum, thanks for replying!

So , if i get it right, my main flaws would be that:
-I am not sweeping the bar , it goes a bit away from my body. Pulling with lats and keeping it on heels fixes that.
-I am lowering the bar, not pushing my hips back. I need to push hips as back as i can maintaining neutral spine and steady knees bend.

How is my spine? Is it neutral? If not, am i arching or rounding? My upper back natural posture is kyphotic btw, i am mostly referring to lower back during the lift.
Keep in mind that the video is a maximal lift, most i have ever done is 7x253 and this day i did 3x5@253 , PRish performance.
I will try to apply all cues tomorrow, will go lighter.

I would suggest re working with the start position I described.  The range of motion is greatly increased this way, which is an issue for you in the video.  Correct with the sweeping the bar and pushing hips to the rear.   It sounds more complicated than it really is, stay on heels, hips extended, then you bend ONLY AT THE KNEE 3 inches. Hips are still extended and bar will be swept in to the hip crease.  This is the START and FINISH position.  Knee bend remains a constant.
Relax.

Raptor

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 04:53:45 pm »
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What if you have really long arms? Should you aim for the hip crease anyway? That would pretty much give me a snatch grip...

LanceSTS

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2012, 04:44:00 am »
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What if you have really long arms? Should you aim for the hip crease anyway? That would pretty much give me a snatch grip...

pull shoulders back, even bend elbows slightly but keep bend constant.  The dip at the start with the knees helps this a lot as well.  I may try and do a video on it if it seems like Im not clear here, its kind of hard to portray in words, once you get it you have no question youre doing it right though.
Relax.

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2012, 05:21:56 am »
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Raptor , great question , i was thinking exactly the same. My arms are too long , i can touch my fucking knee without bending back , just lowering shoulder!

Thanks a lot Lance , very useful and detailed coaching. I will implement all today, hope i can film too.
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vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2012, 06:29:48 am »
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So i did a few body measurements today, copying them from my journal:

Weight = 88,1kg / 193.8lbs
Waist = 91,5cm / 36''
Online bodyfat estimation = 18,1%
Scale bodyfat estimation = 17,2%

So i guess i am around 194 / 17,5%
When i started the bulk ( 20 August ) i was 183,5 / 16%

It means that in 9 weeks i added ~10,5lbs : LBM : 154,1 ---> 160 ( +5,9lbs ) , fat 29,4 ---> 34 ( +4,6lbs ).
Bulk lean / fat ratio = 56% / 44%.

My question is about that ratio, is it good or bad?

PS: I did a little research but couldn't find much. Apparently a 'normal ratio' is 1:1 ( 50%-50% ) , a successful one is 3:1 ( 75% muscle - 25% fat ) while i remember kellyb saying that someone not working out at all is at 30% muscle - 70% fat. So i guess my 56/44 is just above average. But as i said i didn't find much information so i need some verified feedback!
Thanks.

Edit : Kept looking in Lyle's articles , found something:
Quote
So, typically, when overfed, thin/lean individual will gain 60-70% lean body mass (LBM) while fat individuals may gain only 30-40% LBM. Note that these percentage gains are without exercise, simply with overfeeding from a starting body fat level. Although research hasn’t examined overfeeding nearly as much as underfeeding, we might expect intensive weight training to skew these numbers to an even better point.

So for someone not working out at all , the bulk LBM ratio is 30-40% for fat ones , 60-70% for lean. That puts my 54% to real shame considering i lift consistently 3*week.
In the same article and many others ( which i have read a few times in the past , duh! ), he insists that males should NOT bulk when over 15%.
I should reconsider my diet plan, i had 210lbs wet weight or 20% bodyfat as my ending goal , whichever came first. But it looks like it's not worth the effort, i will have much better results if i lean down and then bulk...
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 07:41:04 am by vag »
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LBSS

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2012, 09:29:37 am »
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your estimates might be off and the 60-70% thing is just an average range. don't beat yourself up about it. you're probably right about leaning out before you bulk again, though. plus if you do it right you'll maintain most/all strength and probably gain an inch or two on your vert due to decreased bw.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
wednesday: fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2012, 10:03:20 am »
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your estimates might be off and the 60-70% thing is just an average range. don't beat yourself up about it. you're probably right about leaning out before you bulk again, though. plus if you do it right you'll maintain most/all strength and probably gain an inch or two on your vert due to decreased bw.

Thanks for the advice!
Yes, no freaking out. I decided to attempt a smal cut for now though, trying to push over 200 wet weight curently leaves a feeling of over-bloating and i dont like it.
I will do as i said in my journal:
-Changed diet plan too , instead of bulking every day i will be bulking only on lifting days and cutting on all others. Ideally i will stay above 190 but achieve a nice recomposition.

Also for bulk days i will give this carb-back-loading thing a try, no exaggerations and overhyping, but it seems interesting.

Any further key suggestions are very welcomed,  you are by far the forum's Lyle/recomposition guru!
woot

MrBig

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 01:12:56 pm »
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Quote
I may try and do a video on it
That would be highly appriciated! :) I did not do deads for quite some time now, especially romanian ones ! :)

Quote
What if you have really long arms?

Good one man! I have long arms.... And a very good explanation!
Quit,quit? Ha that is not even in my vocabulary. - KG

http://www.adarq.org/performance-training-blog/an-introductory-block/ -->can't wait to start it!

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2012, 07:17:31 am »
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20 October 2012

So i did RDLs again , second time using Lance's cues. Felt right this time but watching the video i am confused:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aKH9_lYMx0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aKH9_lYMx0</a>

Is that a correct RDL?
Is it a straight leg DL?
Is it a snatch grip DL?
Is it some kind of wrong mixture of all of the above???
woot

LanceSTS

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2012, 08:35:26 pm »
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 Much better Vag.  Slow down a little on the eccentric and be a little more deliberate with each rep, feel the glutes load up as you drive to the rear.  Good work though, thats a much different exercise than you were doing at first.
Relax.

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical :: various Q&A ( programming , exercise form etc )
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2012, 11:58:31 am »
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Ah , so it's better than i thought. Thanks for the feedback Lance , will do those things too and refilm when i feel i got it down good.
woot