Author Topic: Bobsled training and 60m times  (Read 4630 times)

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TKXII

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Bobsled training and 60m times
« on: November 12, 2013, 11:34:15 am »
-1
Bobsledders are the fastest athletes in the world. American football players are fast too but the average speed of a bobsled team is much higher than that of any other team for any other sport except teams in Track and Field.

In the Bobsled combine athletes must perform a one rep max in the clean and the squat as well as a 60m sprint. Their 30m time and their 30m fly times are recorded electronically. Athletes start with their heel on the starting line (their foot in front of the line effectively), standing. I'm not sure how deep of a squat these athletes perform because I have seen some youtube videos of half squats performed by bobsledding athletes.

Here is an example of a bobsled athlete testing his 60m:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqMHfxHAzrM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqMHfxHAzrM</a>

They are scored out of 800 points. An athlete may receive a maximum of 100 points in eight categories: 15m time, 30m time, 60m time, 30m flying time, squat, clean, shot toss, and broad jump.

Point awarded to athletes are based on how well they perform. These numbers are found here after clicking on "Combine Test Score Sheet": http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Bobsled-Skeleton-Federation/Results/Combine-Test

Here are the results of the 2013 USA Bobsled Combine:
https://www.teamusa.org/~/media/USA_Bobsled_Skeleton/Documents/Results/Combine%20Test/2013_COMBINE.pdf

The fastest man there is Chris Fogt, who was a former sprinter. Many sprinters do become bobsledders, like Lolo Jones, Craig Pickering, and Chris Fogt.

Here's a cool vid showing other training they do:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBYPhjhy6a4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBYPhjhy6a4</a>
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

LBSS

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 06:51:26 am »
0
cool post, except the part about bobsledders being the fastest athletes in the world. the fastest athletes are, beyond obviously, 100m sprinters.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

acole14

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 07:22:05 am »
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So let's say Maurice Greene's 60m WR of 6.39sec is 6.28sec when you subtract reaction time. This year in the Calgary combine (which I'm guessing was the highest level of competition) some guy from a standing start runs a 6.26?? I find it hard to believe this isn't more well-known.

http://www.teamusa.org/~/media/USA_Bobsled_Skeleton/Documents/Results/Combine%20Test/2013_COMBINE.pdf

TKXII

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 10:40:08 am »
-1
@LBSS - i said for all sports the avg speed is higher except teams in T&F and by that I meant like a 4x1 team (100m relay) for example. Or the USA sprinting team something like that.

@acole14: Time your 30m or 60m dash with:
a) a three point stance with your foot behind the line, but your finger and arms in front of the line
b) bobsled start - with your heel on the line, standing like a wide receiver, and use some extra momentum as the guy in the video demonstrates.

Your times wil be different by at least 0.3s in the 30m, and up to 0.6s in the 60. my 40yd dash times are different by 0.5s with a one step hopping start

So it's very believable.

Take Fogt's 6.26 and do the following:
a) add RT - 0.15s - 6.41s
b) add difference between standing and a block start - 0.3s at least.
You're looking at a 6.7s 60 there.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

LBSS

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 02:18:05 pm »
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okay, but the first sentence of your post is "bobsledders are the fastest athletes in the world." just saying.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

TKXII

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2013, 03:10:56 pm »
0
True. Fair enough.

I tend to equate athletes with sport and I don't really consider sprinting a sport even though it is because it's individual
 But it is anyway so yea
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

acole14

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2013, 05:28:50 pm »
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@acole14: Time your 30m or 60m dash with:
a) a three point stance with your foot behind the line, but your finger and arms in front of the line
b) bobsled start - with your heel on the line, standing like a wide receiver, and use some extra momentum as the guy in the video demonstrates.

Your times wil be different by at least 0.3s in the 30m, and up to 0.6s in the 60. my 40yd dash times are different by 0.5s with a one step hopping start

So it's very believable.

Take Fogt's 6.26 and do the following:
a) add RT - 0.15s - 6.41s
b) add difference between standing and a block start - 0.3s at least.
You're looking at a 6.7s 60 there.

So what you're saying is that they're NOT the fastest athletes in the world and are just cheating at the start to get faster 60m times?  :trollface:

TKXII

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2013, 09:37:27 am »
-2
no that's not at all a logical sequential thought to the information I posted nor does it contradict anything I've said thus far.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

vag

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2013, 01:42:13 pm »
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Some more data to make this more interesting.

NFL 2012 draft, best 100 40m times:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft/combine/_/year/2012

Times go from 4:33 ( :o ) to 4:63 but it doesn't include reaction time so it would be ~4:50 to ~4:80 if we add an 'average' 0:15 reaction time.


The world record 100m split times:
http://speedendurance.com/2013/04/09/fastest-10-meter-splits/


Carl Lewis 1988 9:92 splits : 40m = 4:78 , 60m =  6:47
Usain Bolt 2009 9:58 splits : 40m = 4:64 , 60m = 6:29


In the bobsled combine, average 45m time is above 5 seconds ( best is 4:85 ) while 60m average is above 6:50 seconds ( best is 6:26 as noted alteady ) and they are with no reaction time AND a hop-start, which combined would add about 0:50 seconds as analyzed by Avishek above.

EDIT :
Duh, i was concluding that NFL are damn fast and easy faster than the bosled but it is 40 YARDS for the NFL so only ~36,5 meters.
So the average 45m for bobsled with reaction time and all is in the 5:50 area while the average 35m average for NFL is in the 4:75 area. The 100m guys do the 30-40 splits in something around 0:9 seconds so what do we have ? A FUCKING TIE!!!

I'm outta here...  :pokerface:
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 01:55:43 pm by vag »
woot

acole14

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2013, 08:51:33 pm »
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no that's not at all a logical sequential thought to the information I posted nor does it contradict anything I've said thus far.

Right...I'm just gonna let that one go through to the keeper. Anyway, you really should have just said they're amongst the most powerful athletes in the world, which is the real story here. Obviously fast (not fastest in the world fast but damn fast), huge broad jumps and big lifting numbers. I would love to be able to train in the facilities they use and do the stuff they do, it's exactly the type of training for getting a beastly SVJ, and RVJ as well. Kind of weird they don't test SVJ as well.

Raptor

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2013, 07:44:29 am »
0
Both me and Nightfly trained with bobsledders and I remember they were doing some 20 rep sets.

TKXII

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2013, 11:41:49 am »
-2


They are definitely not amongst the most powerful athletes, they don't come close to oly lifters. But as far as speed someone still has yet to challenge that for any sport other than sprinting, they are undoubtedly the fastest, after than football players, on average.

So two things here: fastest on average, and fastest. Some football players may be faster than the fastest bobsledders, but I doubt it.

Vag: they don't use a hopping start. They are required to keep the starting foot on the ground. They can lean into it as much as they want. I estimate this would take off 0.3s ish not 0.5s. My hopping start takes 0.5s off my 40yd not 60m. Ill have to time myself though to estimate a better estimate.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 11:45:05 am by Avishek »
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

LBSS

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2013, 06:18:23 am »
+2
this is the dumbest argument on the forum in months.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

TKXII

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2013, 02:16:11 pm »
-2
Haha no it's not. This is my argument. Modified a bit to be more fair. 

1. Bobsleigh athletes are the fastest in the world for any sport other than sprinting.
2. The average speed on any bobsleigh team is after than for any other team in any other sport except for sprinting.
3. The fastest bobsleigh athletes are among the fastest athletes in the world including sprint athletes and the fastest American football players.
4. Bobsleigh athletes are also among the most powerful athletes in the world based on their performances in the broad jump and power clean.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

acole14

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Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2013, 08:03:38 pm »
+2

They are definitely not amongst the most powerful athletes, they don't come close to oly lifters.

Nek minnit:


4. Bobsleigh athletes are also among the most powerful athletes in the world based on their performances in the broad jump and power clean.




This could have just been a nice little thread showing how bobsledders run really fast and jump really high, but as usual Avishek has to be the biggest know-it-all and it turns into the stupidest thread since the golden era of Harvey M and hyperdunk.