Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 294057 times)

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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4815 on: April 13, 2019, 01:32:13 am »
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I don't disagree. I'm just trying to figure out what's wrong with me. If the inhaler has little benefit then i don't have to persue it any further. If it has massive benefit (to me) then it would suggest i could benefit from treatment. But from what i've read so far (just cursory googling) it has little benefit in terms of performance enhancement.
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adarqui

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4816 on: April 13, 2019, 01:34:42 am »
+2
just gonna add my $0.02 to adarq about not using an inhaler for short-term athletic performance. the comparison with contact lenses is spurious.

and you'd have to go to an optometrist to get "fitted" properly for contacts.

unless maybe you're maxent. then you'd just go pick up a random pair of contacts see if they help. :ninja:

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4817 on: April 13, 2019, 01:38:04 am »
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Haha actually i used to go to the optometrist regularly and my numbers were always in flux and deteriorating with time.  I stopped going like 10 years ago and since then my vision has been stable at the same numbers. So there is something to DIY your health.
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adarqui

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4818 on: April 13, 2019, 01:43:46 am »
+1
I don't disagree. I'm just trying to figure out what's wrong with me. If the inhaler has little benefit then i don't have to persue it any further. If it has massive benefit (to me) then it would suggest i could benefit from treatment. But from what i've read so far (just cursory googling) it has little benefit in terms of performance enhancement.

it's not worth finding out whether or not it benefits you, unless you consult a physician first.

additionally, inhalers can increase heart rate & can have side effects during exercise. IMHO, given your HR history, it's not worth experimenting with unless you are under proper supervision - even if it's just done "once" during some basketball drills. going from <never using one> to <trying it out during intense physical exertion> also seems like a bad way to experiment with it.

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4819 on: April 13, 2019, 01:45:33 am »
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Do you see the problem with that though? In a clinical setting i'm not going to exhibit any symptoms. You telling me if James Harden walked into his primary care physician office and said yo i need treatment he'd get it? Doc will take one look at you and say you're in good shape and healthy and you should get going.
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adarqui

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4820 on: April 13, 2019, 01:53:22 am »
+1
i see the problem with you setting up some cookie cutter hypothetical response from a doc, to justify using an inhaler, rather than seeing if you actually need one by seeing the right people (ie not googling it).

Do you see the problem with that though? In a clinical setting i'm not going to exhibit any symptoms. You telling me if James Harden walked into his primary care physician office and said yo i need treatment he'd get it? Doc will take one look at you and say you're in good shape and healthy and you should get going.

well he'd probably be right. and if that's all he says & you're not impressed, find a better doc.

what'd docs tell you about your heart?

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4821 on: April 13, 2019, 03:17:03 am »
+2
Do you see the problem with that though? In a clinical setting i'm not going to exhibit any symptoms. You telling me if James Harden walked into his primary care physician office and said yo i need treatment he'd get it? Doc will take one look at you and say you're in good shape and healthy and you should get going.

you serious? how do you think doctors diagnose asthma? guessing?

also, the eye doctor example some anti-vaxxer logic. went to eye doctor, eyes changed from time to time per administered tests, stopped going to doctor, eyes stabilized per your own perception, ergo not going to doctor stabilizes eyes. of course! it makes perfect sense. or perhaps your eyes stabilized because that's what happens when people get older. or perhaps they have gotten worse but because it's happened gradually and only slightly over time you don't perceive it.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 03:23:51 am by LBSS »
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: extensive tempo (7 km) OR fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
wednesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4822 on: April 13, 2019, 03:27:09 am »
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None of us have any idea about any of this. Im willing to investigate though.
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4823 on: April 13, 2019, 04:12:14 am »
-1
Do you see the problem with that though? In a clinical setting i'm not going to exhibit any symptoms. You telling me if James Harden walked into his primary care physician office and said yo i need treatment he'd get it? Doc will take one look at you and say you're in good shape and healthy and you should get going.

you serious? how do you think doctors diagnose asthma? guessing?

also, the eye doctor example some anti-vaxxer logic. went to eye doctor, eyes changed from time to time per administered tests, stopped going to doctor, eyes stabilized per your own perception, ergo not going to doctor stabilizes eyes. of course! it makes perfect sense. or perhaps your eyes stabilized because that's what happens when people get older. or perhaps they have gotten worse but because it's happened gradually and only slightly over time you don't perceive it.

i swear antivaxxer is the new nazi germany in internet arguments? im aware that eyesight stabilises with age. However, both of my siblings continued to go the optometrist and kept getting hte numbers increased over time. I chose not to because the last time i was given a new script, i got a pair of glasses made and they were giving me headaches. I went back and returned them and ordered glasses online according to my old numbers and i was happy. Been happy since, eyesight is as good as i can remember it being. Yea if at any stage in those years i went to get checked i bet my numbers would be different. But if you keep changing them then you keep changing them. I'll stop short of calling it a scam but it surely is that in some sense.

Also we're talking about something OTC. It's not necessary to have a script to get an inhaler here. I also dont see everyone using one at the rec leagues, it's not conferring any advantage to the majority of folk. Only those who need it wil benefit. Knowing doctors like i do, mine would hear my n=1 experiment and listen to it intently b/c it gives valuable info for making an informed decision. Its exactly like a test except i'd be taking the initiative because we don't really prescribe tests under stressful exercise readily. Ive never had one done yet, doctors don't see the need. That's just the way it will go, you're healthy, you're fine, don't worry about it. Next. They don't have the time to fully investigate any one patient, they prob can't even tell you your name 5 minutes after you leave the room and they don't have a chart handy. It's a system that requires doing your own homework to get the maximum benefit.

I mentioned James Harden cos he's an example of an elite basketball player who has a known history of asthma. I bet if he was to go to a doc they'd say he's HEALTHY AF and as far as the doctor goes, that's good enough to call next. They're not interested in solving problems outside of actual pathologies for the most part.

Also have a read here you jackasses:

https://thorax.bmj.com/content/56/9/675

Effects of inhaled salbutamol in exercising non-asthmatic athletes

Quote
RESULTS Neither endurance time nor post-exercise bronchodilation were significantly different between the treatments. Metabolic parameters were affected by exercise but not by treatment.

CONCLUSIONS Inhaled salbutamol, even in a high dose, did not have a significant effect on endurance performance in non-asthmatic athletes, although the bronchodilating effect of the drug at the beginning of exercise may have improved respiratory adaptation. Our results do not preclude an ergogenic effect of β2 agonists given by other routes or for a longer period.


it literally only works for ppl with asthma and (see article below) not in a performance sense. simple test proposed here seems to have triggered your kneejerk reflex Anti PED response .. check your assumptions..

Quote
Inhaled salbutamol does not affect athletic performance in asthmatic and non-asthmatic cyclists.

CONCLUSIONS:
The inhalation of salbutamol induced a significant increase in resting lung function in EVH+ and EVH- athletes but this improvement in lung function did not translate to improved exercise performance. Salbutamol had no discernible effect on key ventilatory and exercise parameters regardless of EVH challenge outcome.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24100289


So it doesn't even improve performance in asthmatic athletes.. so much for all this beat up

To add to this i have a team mate who used to be treated for asthma when he was younger. He's now pretty fit and doesn't use any medication. But there is got to be a mechanism there for the treatment helping ppl overcome this long term. So the way LBBS has called it 'short-term' might not be the case. I've read James Harden used to use the inhaler during college games, but i dont remember hearing about it after he got into the NBA. there may be a mechanism there where ppl gradually adapt to better (read normal) lung function over time.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 08:33:10 am by maxent »
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adarqui

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4824 on: April 13, 2019, 12:12:28 pm »
+1
Quote
it literally only works for ppl with asthma and (see article below) not in a performance sense. simple test proposed here seems to have triggered your kneejerk reflex Anti PED response .. check your assumptions..

to be clear, none of my previous statements took the anti-ped angle (you did). nor did LBSS's iirc. my statements echo'd the bold statement, ie you're considering taking something you probably don't need, in an environment of high exertion.

you're justifying using it to improve performance, because you think you may have some kind of asthma. a doctor will tell you if you do or not.



Galen Rupp is a known asthma sufferer. Surely doctors don't tell him he's too healthy for asthma medication etc.

https://www.rxwiki.com/feature-article/olympian-galen-rupp-suffers-asthma-and-allergies



Quote
simple test proposed here seems to have triggered your kneejerk reflex Anti PED response .. check your assumptions..

it triggered my "dont do dumb as fu*k stuff kneejerk reflex".

weird how you say "check your assumptions" when you're assuming (or something?) that we're taking an ANTI PED angle. kinda ironic.

the angle is: find out if you actually have some kind of asthma instead of experimenting with inhalers.

apologies if my replies bug you, just expressing my concerns with going down that road.



brb taking insulin before this long run. :trolldance: :ibrunning:

gukl

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4825 on: April 13, 2019, 12:38:16 pm »
+3
Salbutamol doesn't cause long term adaptions, tonnes of people just grow out of asthma. The other mainstay of treatment for asthma is corticosteroids which, unless you actually have asthma it probably isn't a good idea to take. If you actually think you have asthma... Go get tested, young people die of asthma. Also your comment about James harden walking into the doctors symptom free.. You don't have to be having an asthma attack for it to be detected!

David Beckham is another famous pro who has asthma, occasionally see him pitch side with an inhaler. Is it cold where you are? Exercise and cold can both trigger bronchoconstriction which is actually quite noticeable for me (I don't have asthma).

If you don't have asthma as others said, an inhaler isn't going to do much for you other than jack up your heart rate.

FWIW salbutamol is pretty harmless (unless you have an arrhythmia or something) in med school we actually did spirometry experiments and they let us use salbutamol to do experiments on each other.

Talking of PEDs, I'm currently working on a renal medicine ward... Everyone is on EPO. The temptation is strong. (I'm kidding).

« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 12:51:29 pm by gukl »

adarqui

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4826 on: April 13, 2019, 02:46:12 pm »
+1
Salbutamol doesn't cause long term adaptions, tonnes of people just grow out of asthma. The other mainstay of treatment for asthma is corticosteroids which, unless you actually have asthma it probably isn't a good idea to take. If you actually think you have asthma... Go get tested, young people die of asthma. Also your comment about James harden walking into the doctors symptom free.. You don't have to be having an asthma attack for it to be detected!

David Beckham is another famous pro who has asthma, occasionally see him pitch side with an inhaler. Is it cold where you are? Exercise and cold can both trigger bronchoconstriction which is actually quite noticeable for me (I don't have asthma).

If you don't have asthma as others said, an inhaler isn't going to do much for you other than jack up your heart rate.

FWIW salbutamol is pretty harmless (unless you have an arrhythmia or something) in med school we actually did spirometry experiments and they let us use salbutamol to do experiments on each other.

Talking of PEDs, I'm currently working on a renal medicine ward... Everyone is on EPO. The temptation is strong. (I'm kidding).

good info.

and ya he's had heart "issues", arrhythmias and such. that's why i think it's a really bad idea to play around with, especially to experiment with it during exercise.

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4827 on: April 14, 2019, 08:09:38 am »
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Tried it out (salbutamol) today and im not sure it was a success. Literally saw a big white puff rise out at the top so im not sure if it even ended up going in my lungs lol. Felt feelings of anxiety and dread but that might be unrelated cos i was running late and trying to plan my Final Training Session. Literally made no progress on the lebron 8 dunk challenge, i actually went backwards but that was probably because my body just wasn't up to it today. Was having trouble just dunking without even the running. In the evening i went for a run with the vest and suprisingly my HR was sub 150 .. even though im just as heavy as last time i did this, and today i was going up hill as well. Maybe the wind was cancelling that out. Idk. Don't think the inhaler had any effect at this point since i took it in the morning (around 11am) and ran around 7pm. Weather was cool though, so that might be why my HR was lower  since most of my running was done in warm/hot conditions previously.

Not sure if i'll bother my doctor about getting a test unless im sure i will get a positive test, he'll just think im a hypochondriac or something and i dont wanna have to deal with that. Tbh i suspect i def am likely to have it b/c as long as i can remember my endurance has been awful. Even when i was very lean and light i still had the same issues. Was a weak swimmer. etc. It's been a feature of my life for so long, i just dont think anyone would have noticed, not my parents who probably never even heard of asthma and who else would have noticed or cared?
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4828 on: April 15, 2019, 09:33:00 am »
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Bodyweight(AM): 86kg (15 March)
Diet compliance: 37/37 days
Daily Squat: 148/148 days
Activity:


Morning:
   

Noon:
 BS 3x120, 1x140 

Evening:
 Shooting practice 


Notes:
  • Right calf is bugged out. I need to figure out what's wrong with it, might be compartment syndrome b/c it seems to get worse if i pull my socks up.
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adarqui

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4829 on: April 15, 2019, 10:46:45 am »
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Tried it out (salbutamol) today and im not sure it was a success. Literally saw a big white puff rise out at the top so im not sure if it even ended up going in my lungs lol. Felt feelings of anxiety and dread but that might be unrelated cos i was running late and trying to plan my Final Training Session. Literally made no progress on the lebron 8 dunk challenge, i actually went backwards but that was probably because my body just wasn't up to it today. Was having trouble just dunking without even the running. In the evening i went for a run with the vest and suprisingly my HR was sub 150 .. even though im just as heavy as last time i did this, and today i was going up hill as well. Maybe the wind was cancelling that out. Idk. Don't think the inhaler had any effect at this point since i took it in the morning (around 11am) and ran around 7pm. Weather was cool though, so that might be why my HR was lower  since most of my running was done in warm/hot conditions previously.

Not sure if i'll bother my doctor about getting a test unless im sure i will get a positive test, he'll just think im a hypochondriac or something and i dont wanna have to deal with that. Tbh i suspect i def am likely to have it b/c as long as i can remember my endurance has been awful. Even when i was very lean and light i still had the same issues. Was a weak swimmer. etc. It's been a feature of my life for so long, i just dont think anyone would have noticed, not my parents who probably never even heard of asthma and who else would have noticed or cared?

fwiw. light & lean can help *but* it doesn't indicate anything about heart & lung ability. plenty of light & lean people out there with 0 cardio/fitness.

also regarding asthma, feels like you're trivializing it a bit. people who get asthma attacks and such, definitely know they have a problem. it's not only during exercise, they can be just sitting around and out of nowhere be unable to breathe. obviously there's different levels to it.



Notes:
  • Right calf is bugged out. I need to figure out what's wrong with it, might be compartment syndrome b/c it seems to get worse if i pull my socks up.

damn sucks. i don't mess with pulled gastrocs. pulled soleus ya, but not gastroc. be careful w/ it.